Forum
Community Forum
Today's Posts
FAQ & Rules
Members List

Writing
Writing Forum
Recent Posts
Critique Guidelines

Groups
YWO Social Groups
Facebook
Myspace

Chat
 
YWA

Register

Store
Support YWO
YWO Merchandise
The Book Despository
Amazon.com (US)
Amazon.co.uk (UK)
Amazon.ca (Canada)

SBS Mag


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-27-2014, 08:22 PM View Post #11 (Link)
lalodragon (Offline)
Global Moderator
 
lalodragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: To the laboratory!
Posts: 1,982
Points: 30
Times Thanked: 193
Originally Posted by Julian View Post
Or what about we reward the user who's critted the most in a span of time with more crit points, or/and a title?!
yeah, baby! A title!

Originally Posted by myjaspercat View Post
That's the thing, most people don't like to critique long works, how is that fair to the writer of that post? If there was a day with no new work being submitted it gives those authors a chance to get the feedback that they need
I didn't say it was fair. I just don't have three days to devote to a crit (and don't expect anyone to spend three days on mine).

In the spirit of fairness: because my long crits take so much work, I have a higher bar for the writer's critiques. If s/he is not doing a fair amount of good critiquery, s/he ain't getting my time (on the off chance that I'd have the time). A review day wouldn't change that. (So, anybody listening, give as good as you get or go jump in lake.)
We do award more points for longer crits, of course.

Maybe we want some kinda spotlight for crits, but we'd have the same three people winning every round.
  
						Last edited by lalodragon; 05-27-2014 at 08:43 PM.
					
					Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2014, 08:49 PM View Post #12 (Link)
Derezzination (Offline)
Creative Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bath
Posts: 832
Points: 30
Times Thanked: 74
Originally Posted by lalodragon View Post

Maybe we want some kinda spotlight for crits, but we'd have the same three people winning every round.

I know this. Maybe we had it on TW?
__________________
I'm too busy spending errrything on Alexander Wang
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2014, 09:32 PM View Post #13 (Link)
owl (Offline)
Scholarly Apprentice
 
owl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 234
Points: 20
Times Thanked: 41
That's the thing, most people don't like to critique long works, how is that fair to the writer of that post? If there was a day with no new work being submitted it gives those authors a chance to get the feedback that they need
As someone who doesn't critique longer pieces, I feel that a day with no work being submitted would NOT make me want to suddenly give people posting novel chapters or longer short stories critiques. I don't critique much anyway (for a variety of both goofy and serious personal reasons), so perhaps I'm not the best example. But I think a spotlight, a critique drive, and a reward like a user title would all help boost the number of critiques being given.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2014, 09:41 PM View Post #14 (Link)
Wig (Offline)
Aspiring Author
 
Wig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 606
Points: 30
Times Thanked: 102
Originally Posted by Derezzination View Post
I know this. Maybe we had it on TW?
We did, and we had crit bootcamp (yeah!).

I like it, titles are easy enough and people like them so...
__________________
you can't beat death but
you can beat death in life, sometimes.
- Bukowski
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2014, 11:30 PM View Post #15 (Link)
myjaspercat (Offline)
Idea Scribe
 
myjaspercat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Rio Rancho
Posts: 51
Points: 18
Times Thanked: 7
Originally Posted by owl View Post
As someone who doesn't critique longer pieces, I feel that a day with no work being submitted would NOT make me want to suddenly give people posting novel chapters or longer short stories critiques. I don't critique much anyway (for a variety of both goofy and serious personal reasons), so perhaps I'm not the best example. But I think a spotlight, a critique drive, and a reward like a user title would all help boost the number of critiques being given.
I think you're right, if something like a user title was put up for competition it would boost the number of critiques.
__________________
"There are perhaps no days of our childhood we lived so fully as those we spent with a favorite book." -Marcel Proust

"Life is the art of Drawing... without an eraser."

"So come with me where Dreamers are born and Time is never planned, Just think of happy things, And your heart will fly on wings, in Never Never Land."-Peter Pan

"Someday I will fly high above the tree tops, covered in a painted cloak and I will look down on the world below and know that I have found my purpose."
  
						Last edited by Derezzination; 05-28-2014 at 12:31 PM.
					
					 Reason: Shocking Grammar
					Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2014, 11:36 PM View Post #16 (Link)
Spacepirate (Offline)
Creative Fanatic
 
Spacepirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 814
Points: 22.28
Times Thanked: 99
Frankly, I don't think people care. Like, I imagine you come from YWS? YWO is very different. We don't have a lot of people - but the people we do have are dedicated and supportive. There's no need for competitions and whatnot because there is no point: throwing out user-titles, or spotlights will not make old members - who make up most of the site - critique more. The reasons why we - me guiltily included - do not critique as much as we should cannot be solved by such trivial things.

To boost critiques, you need to increase good quality written work. Writers are fleeting here - there's no point writing a long critique on something mediocre if that user will stay for a month tops. I mean, it's not fair, of course, but it's the reality of it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 01:39 AM View Post #17 (Link)
Julian (Offline)
Freelance Writer
 
Julian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,252
Points: 1.23
Times Thanked: 78
Originally Posted by Spacepirate View Post
There's no need for competitions and whatnot because there is no point: throwing out user-titles, or spotlights will not make old members - who make up most of the site - critique more.

To boost critiques, you need to increase good quality written work. Writers are fleeting here - there's no point writing a long critique on something mediocre if that user will stay for a month tops.
Haha, I disagree-ish...? Yeah, going to be a devil's advocate, here, and state that this is exactly why we need to create more incentives towards participation and critiquing.

Basically, the reality you're pointing out is a bit elitist; we should consider the fact that this is a forum welcoming users from preteens to below-30 years old, and so many won't either have the ability, or the dedication, or the capacity to write 'satisfying' pieces and critiques.

I guess that a luxury of those who joined writing forums in around 2006-2009 is that with the niche being newly-established for a younger audience there are more people keenly invested in making a writing community work, mainly because it's a new community, and, from this, the community becomes interdependent and self-sufficient, as the users want to improve alongside each other because they've joined at around the same time. No one wants to be left out, really.

New members, here, do not have that luxury, because many of us might have grown out of the community, or that we've started to branch out towards other different stuff (e.g getting published).

So, really, the incentives, here, are not just for the members to stay, but to also establish a connection between the new users, so that, with the aid of the older members, they could improve alongside each other. I think that this kind of approach is more sustainable than just try to actively teach them how to improve themselves (because they might get neglected if they won't). The teacher-student dynamic in an online forum does not really work well for obvious reasons but what's more important is to give them a reason or an incentive to work/write/critique.

(lol, this reminds me of the classical conditioning and mob mentality studies, haha.)
__________________
http://nihilarian-atlas.tumblr.com//
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 01:56 AM View Post #18 (Link)
myjaspercat (Offline)
Idea Scribe
 
myjaspercat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Rio Rancho
Posts: 51
Points: 18
Times Thanked: 7
Originally Posted by Spacepirate View Post
To boost critiques, you need to increase good quality written work. Writers are fleeting here - there's no point writing a long critique on something mediocre if that user will stay for a month tops. I mean, it's not fair, of course, but it's the reality of it.
I thought that the whole point of YWO was for writers who are not that developed in there sense of writing was to have support. You are pretty much asking people to only post book work. The thing is writers post there work here so they can find out what they need to change, and what they need to work on. YWO is place for them to find there own sense of style.
__________________
"There are perhaps no days of our childhood we lived so fully as those we spent with a favorite book." -Marcel Proust

"Life is the art of Drawing... without an eraser."

"So come with me where Dreamers are born and Time is never planned, Just think of happy things, And your heart will fly on wings, in Never Never Land."-Peter Pan

"Someday I will fly high above the tree tops, covered in a painted cloak and I will look down on the world below and know that I have found my purpose."
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 02:57 AM View Post #19 (Link)
lalodragon (Offline)
Global Moderator
 
lalodragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: To the laboratory!
Posts: 1,982
Points: 30
Times Thanked: 193
Originally Posted by Julian View Post
Haha, I disagree-ish...? Yeah, going to be a devil's advocate, here, and state that this is exactly why we need to create more incentives towards participation and critiquing.

Basically, the reality you're pointing out is a bit elitist; we should consider the fact that this is a forum welcoming users from preteens to below-30 years old, and so many won't either have the ability, or the dedication, or the capacity to write 'satisfying' pieces and critiques.

I guess that a luxury of those who joined writing forums in around 2006-2009 is that with the niche being newly-established for a younger audience there are more people keenly invested in making a writing community work, mainly because it's a new community, and, from this, the community becomes interdependent and self-sufficient, as the users want to improve alongside each other because they've joined at around the same time. No one wants to be left out, really.

New members, here, do not have that luxury, because many of us might have grown out of the community, or that we've started to branch out towards other different stuff (e.g getting published).

So, really, the incentives, here, are not just for the members to stay, but to also establish a connection between the new users, so that, with the aid of the older members, they could improve alongside each other. I think that this kind of approach is more sustainable than just try to actively teach them how to improve themselves (because they might get neglected if they won't). The teacher-student dynamic in an online forum does not really work well for obvious reasons but what's more important is to give them a reason or an incentive to work/write/critique.

(lol, this reminds me of the classical conditioning and mob mentality studies, haha.)
This this THIS. Crits from old members are only going to decrease, and are decreasing, and where is the new league?! Part of this might be our modding lapse (there were months when the mods were away) but part of it is the lack of, I dunno, fervour? Reciprocity? When I was new I could trade crits with other mediocre writers/critters (as well as the amazing established members); now we seem to have a cluster of good writers/critters and a cluster of people who aren't amazing at either. And I'm really guilty here-- I think we cluster too much. I'll gladly crit a good quality poem whose author I know (& know they're listening to my crit). But I'm slower to crit the uncertain newbies who probably need it more.
Originally Posted by myjaspercat View Post
I thought that the whole point of YWO was for writers who are not that developed in there sense of writing was to have support. You are pretty much asking people to only post book work. The thing is writers post there work here so they can find out what they need to change, and what they need to work on. YWO is place for them to find there own sense of style.
*their. Yeah, this is the point innit?

Originally Posted by Spacepirate View Post
Writers are fleeting here - there's no point writing a long critique on something mediocre if that user will stay for a month tops. I mean, it's not fair, of course, but it's the reality of it.
But I still agree here. It's not "only post decent work" so much as "don't post shit and run". I don't want to give an intense crit to someone who'll immediately leave. Or, worst of all, who will reply "lol thanks but i wasn't really going to change this I just wanted people to read it".
NEWBIES BE AWARE: If you personally ask for a crit that implies that you are interested in improving & not just being read. It is good. And please be patient! Anything you post takes a long time to crit. When I joined poems would wait for two weeks, this was normal. Especially considering that I'm watching to see if you leave.
While I'm ranting! There've been certain writers these past years who I stopped critting, because they would post another poem, entirely unimproved, every day or so. (They eventually leave to find a more applauding place.) Don't be that person.

But yeah. I feel like we need a drive for crits on/by younger members.
Interesting to note: when the site was new it was NEW. But now there are 1000s of sites where young writers can post and get at least applauding reviews. Our main mark is our standard of critiques. If a newb can't come and get a good, scathing crit, why should they stay?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 03:28 AM View Post #20 (Link)
myjaspercat (Offline)
Idea Scribe
 
myjaspercat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Rio Rancho
Posts: 51
Points: 18
Times Thanked: 7
Originally Posted by lalodragon View Post
This this THIS. Crits from old members are only going to decrease, and are decreasing, and where is the new league?! Part of this might be our modding lapse (there were months when the mods were away) but part of it is the lack of, I dunno, fervour? Reciprocity? When I was new I could trade crits with other mediocre writers/critters (as well as the amazing established members); now we seem to have a cluster of good writers/critters and a cluster of people who aren't amazing at either. And I'm really guilty here-- I think we cluster too much. I'll gladly crit a good quality poem whose author I know (& know they're listening to my crit). But I'm slower to crit the uncertain newbies who probably need it more.
*their. Yeah, this is the point innit?

But I still agree here. It's not "only post decent work" so much as "don't post shit and run". I don't want to give an intense crit to someone who'll immediately leave. Or, worst of all, who will reply "lol thanks but i wasn't really going to change this I just wanted people to read it".
NEWBIES BE AWARE: If you personally ask for a crit that implies that you are interested in improving & not just being read. It is good. And please be patient! Anything you post takes a long time to crit. When I joined poems would wait for two weeks, this was normal. Especially considering that I'm watching to see if you leave.
While I'm ranting! There've been certain writers these past years who I stopped critting, because they would post another poem, entirely unimproved, every day or so. (They eventually leave to find a more applauding place.) Don't be that person.

But yeah. I feel like we need a drive for crits on/by younger members.
Interesting to note: when the site was new it was NEW. But now there are 1000s of sites where young writers can post and get at least applauding reviews. Our main mark is our standard of critiques. If a newb can't come and get a good, scathing crit, why should they stay?
I see what you are saying here and I am pretty sure that a lot of people see it as well. A lot of writers will back away when they hear something that they don't like. If someone is really dedicated to what they write then they shouldn't be afraid of hurtful feedback. This brings me to a few points:

First. Writers, especially new writers, need to know that if they are going to post something on this forum then they may get feedback that they do not like. We are just here to help and if that means that you may get your feelings hurt over something someone says then oh-well. This brings me to m second point...

Writers need to be dedicated. If a writer leaves after hearing something they didn't like then they are not dedicated. Writing means there are going to be times when you get knocked down, we just need to learn to use the advice and build both ourselves and our stories up again.

Next. I think that we need to critique younger/newer writers. I know that we may find comfort in what we already know but by doing that we don't help people that really need it. I myself get frustrated reading mediocre work, but sometimes I just pull through it so that writer can have help. I believe that, that's what we all need to learn how to do.
__________________
"There are perhaps no days of our childhood we lived so fully as those we spent with a favorite book." -Marcel Proust

"Life is the art of Drawing... without an eraser."

"So come with me where Dreamers are born and Time is never planned, Just think of happy things, And your heart will fly on wings, in Never Never Land."-Peter Pan

"Someday I will fly high above the tree tops, covered in a painted cloak and I will look down on the world below and know that I have found my purpose."
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools

 


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:10 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 - Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All writing Copyright © its author(s). All other material Copyright © 2007-2012 Young Writers Online unless otherwise specified.
Managed by Andrew Kukwa (Andy) and Shaun Duke (Shaun) from The World in the Satin Bag. Design by HTWoRKS.