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Old 02-05-2009, 04:41 AM View Post #1 (Link) Important. Read.
Nyx (Offline)
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Okay So I'm sure you all know by now that Zomb left. =[ He left us this & he wanted it to be shared with all YWOians. I am posting it here so PLEASE do not just pass by this thread & not read it. It is in fact one of the most important if not THE most important thread on this site. Read it & consider it. PLEASE.

Hey, team

I have thought long and hard about this, and I have decided that I will be departing from YWO indefinitely.
I hereby relinquish my moderating powers and trust that they go to a candidate who stands for what YWO once was.
A place where writers could hone their craft through constructive criticism and writing continuously.

I am afraid to say that over the last few months, my faith in the site waned, I became aware that all that was going on was pointless discussions that did not belong on a writing site for aspiring authors.

During my time here, certain members left because of me. They left because I was too difficult and not understanding of the fact they they are but children. I have really taken a look at the things I have done here and I am filled with regret for many, many things.

I am no longer a writer, folks, lets get that out of the way. I am a musician now. My dream is to be paid for doing what I love, playing music. Not writing stories or moderating a web site.
It is time I move on and focus on my life. This place, for so long was my home. I will truly miss all the memories and the friends I made here.

While my path is made up, I sincerely hope that all of you stick to what you love and follow your dream. Don't let this site become a shadow of its former self. It is quickly fading into a place that I cannot be a part of and stands for all the things I disbelieve in. Please don't let everything I fought for here go to waste.

I learned so much from this site and if I made any contribution at all, I am glad. I did all that I could for this site, and even if everyone hated me for being a hard ass, I did what I thought was best.

Many of you are still dear to me and I will continue conversing with you as we once did. I just cannot and will not be a part of a site that I have no place in being.

I do not know what you, my former team mates wish to do with this message, I would appreciate it if the rest of the site saw it as I wish them all the best in their future endeavors, but if not, I understand.

No need to make a dramatic thread of my leaving, I just want them all to know what happened.

Thank you all for such wonderful times. Though I can't stay here to see which of you make it big, know that I am just a click away and I can be reached if you wish.

Many of you are wonderful people and you will all be my little virtual family, no matter where I go next.
I thank you for your understanding my decision and I wish all of you the best.

Keep the pens moving and keep the stories flowing. It was fun while it lasted.

Forever yours in Music,

PS: Ninja's suck.

I don't think anyone can truely ignore what Zomb is saying. The site is not what it used to be. This is Young WRITERS online, the objectif of the site is to improve our writing;it is not to socialize. This is not Facebook. And while I am glad that we have all gotten to know eachother very well, & through conversation and spam we have become friends and have come to know each other better, I do know that the importance of the site is fading. We are becoming a method of procastination, while it should, and if you help it will, be a method of improvement.

Do not get me wrong; YWO is not just a writing site, we're a community, as Zomb put it, a virtual family, but lately we have become a pointless community. We need to strive, as a group, for something better.

I know that I have not been practicing what I preach lately, I know I have been absent & that I probably will continue to be so for the next few days/weeks due to a busy scheduale. And yes, we're all busy; but that is no excuse to let our dreams of becoming great writers get out of sight or to let them completely go. I will TRY with all my best to be more present and to keep my virtual home striving for the best. I will TRY to keep us all on track and headed towards less spam & more literature.

But this is not one idealistic, way too worn-down, lacking sleep girl's job; it is impossible for me to do this alone. So let me know if you are willing to help.
PM for critiques and help? Yes, you may.
Originally Posted by Diocletian View Post
What I don't like about this site is that there isn't enough social drama.
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Old 02-05-2009, 05:34 AM View Post #2 (Link)
Rafael Domination (Offline)
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Well, good luck with that. I have faith in you guys though, as I won't be able to contribute at all for the next 12 months. I think we should egg people to write more. Shaun and Andy are doing a good job by making people submit work for the magazine, but the normal site member should also lend a hand. I dunno. Make a collab piece or something.

And ninjas do not suck.
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:27 AM View Post #3 (Link)
Diocletian (Offline)
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So I took some of YWO's esteemed and high-post-count members (sorry if I missed anyone), did some number crunching, and this is what I found.

Andy - 5 literary topics posted, meaning 1/416 of his posts contributed a piece to YWO.

Shaun - 3 literary topics posted, meaning 1/1086 of his posts contributed a piece to YWO.

Imelda - 1 literary topic posted, meaning 1/1383 of her posts contributed a piece to YWO.

Shadow - 28 literary topics posted, meaning 1/155 of his posts contributed a piece to YWO.

Rafael Domination - 13 literary topics posted, meaning 1/333 of his posts contributed a piece to YWO.

Tsuki - 13 literary topics posted, meaning 1/146 of her posts contributed a piece to YWO.

Nyx - 16 literary topics posted, meaning 1/265 of her posts contributed a piece to YWO.

GeorgeMichael- 14 literary topics posted, meaning 1/97 of his posts contributed a piece to YWO.

Carraka- 4 literary topics posted, meaning 1/474 of her posts contributed a piece to YWO.

Ichigo- 5 literary topics posted, meaning 1/400 of her posts contributed a piece to YWO.

These numbers, with perhaps the exception of GeorgeMichael, are pathetic. I would also excuse Carraka because one of her whopping 4 pieces submitted on YWO is a giganto novel, and maybe Shaun and Andy because I'm assuming they're doing a lot of work behind the scenes keeping YWO afloat. But for the rest of you...where is your resolve to churning the waters in the Writing section? When there are members like Shadow, who spend half of their posts dissing ninjas or pirates, then you've got a serious problem at the top of the hierarchy. Forget the lower echelon members like me, Apple, Lizzie, etc. If you can't submit more than 10 pieces in your entire stay at YWO and have racked up thousands of posts, then it is my opinion that should think about why one is here spending bandwidth in the first place.

Debates, fine. Goo-gooing over one another's pictures in the Pictures Thread, fine. Even your completely inane ninja vs. pirates idiocy that spams up half the threads here (it's gotten a little better over the years), fine. But these should all be secondary. The Writing section of YWO is failing badly, and that's because not enough people care enough about either writing in general - like Zombified, who was at least brave enough to admit it at the end - or don't expect to improve your craft here.

Which brings me to my second point.

Most people here cannot give good critiques. There are certain gem members on YWO whom I have been astoundingly impressed with because of their critiquing, but the rest of you just take a quick look at a story, point out some textual errors, say "LOL great job can't wait for more!" and leave. First of all, why are you acting as copy-editors? If someone has a large number of spelling and grammar mistakes, mention that at the end or something and suggest they go to someone else to fix something as trivial as that. True and proper critiquing has as much to do with ideas and plot and flow as which sentence goes before which sentence and when to use commas. Most critiques on here are dedicated to fixing mundane aspects of pieces instead of the underlying themes, motifs, storyline, etc.

I'm not going to mention names because some of these people are ones I am on amicable terms with, but this problem is especially rampant among those who have higher post counts and/or are established members of the community. I highly suggest the administration get together all of these super-posters and ask them what they're doing here. Implore them to commit to in-depth, thoughtful critiques - after all, they have thousands of posts, so they must have some vested interest in the site.

A third problem is advertising. I haven't seen any. Word-of-mouth always works best when trying to recruit people to forums. It worked splendidly with places like Writer's Beat and Young Writers Society. It even worked to an extent to expand TeenageWriter's membership. But right now, this site has nothing special to it that other sites don't, except the magazine. And even that is neglected; I applaud Shaun for tirelessly promoting the magazine on these forums, but apparently not many have been submitting to it as of late. Start submitting if you care at all about this site. (By the way, it was the same case for the first YWO-sponsored competition back in October, in which a grand total of 4 people submitted pieces to be graded).

Bottom line to the moderators: get your longtime members back in the routine of submitting many pieces and giving many critiques. Start persuading these members to actually go out and do something besides devoting four pages to "Happy Birthday!" and who knows how many pages to "Let's have a secret ninja hideout thread, because ninjas are random and being random makes me feel cool!". And moderators, you need to start submitting things as well, because right now I don't see much of a role model in the moderating team in the way of actually posting pieces to be critiqued. Start acting out the name of this website, or else it's going to degenerate into a social utility site and nothing more.

That would be my two cents on the subject. Of course, I'm still a newbie, so what do I know.
						Last edited by Diocletian; 02-05-2009 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:14 AM View Post #4 (Link)
Rafael Domination (Offline)
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^ Points are valid, but like your critiques, are 98.6% more of whining than actual solutions. Here's a thought: just because we're not on par with the likes of Stephen King, doesn't mean we're not improving in some way, or contributing what we can, or taking steps to improve the pieces we've made. You seem to be under the delusion that the more posts we have here, the higher we are up the hierarchy. Inaccurate. We've simply been here longer, and we are probably balancing our writing lives with our real lives. Maybe you haven't taken into account that after a long day at school/college/work, we just don't have in us to plop down in front of the computer and figure out plot ideas all day. Maybe if you became more the solution instead of the philosopher of, progress would come a little faster. The point is, we ARE young writers. Maybe if you were talking to 40-year-old men and women doing the same thing we're doing, then you'd have more of a right to sit on top of that sickeningly high horse and rain down fiery judgement on us.

But as I said. Your points are valid. Good eye, kid.

Oh and FYI, don't even include me in that list of yours. I double as an artist and author, aside from being a student and secondary house cook. I've got a lot of things to juggle that don't exactly leave me a lot of free time to write. Maybe during summer or christmas holidays. But nowadays, you've got nothing on me.
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:29 AM View Post #5 (Link)
Rafael Domination (Offline)
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Actually, he has made some very good (albeit harsh, but I'm neither saying it's a bad or good thing) critiques in the past, and while his points on this topic are, self-quote, 98.6% whining, they are valid, and YWO will improve if their basic principles are met by the members. I'd rather not have him banned, but only so we have a site villain. Trolls are useless. Dio may have a habit of playing on people's nerves, but he's not entirely useless. Yet.

Anyways, I have been thinking of you, Imelda. Like it or not, you're the pirate queen in the YWO Chibi Portrait.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:28 AM View Post #6 (Link)
Uriel (Offline)
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Wow, that Dio guy has really got you guys figured out.
Passing time.
Finally the sun sets.
The nightís coming.
Beautiful night.
Merciful night
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:29 AM View Post #7 (Link)
Carraka (Offline)
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Dio, you're excusing me because ya like me. xP Plus, I have power over you on the other site.

Although looking at those statistics, I can't help but stare and go ... what? Yeah, some of those posts are in EC, but there are also posts as crits in other novels, and some of those posts are in lit. discussion. And then some of those posts were spamming in the intro threads. (: So, while Dio's points are valid, I would argue that the statistics are invalid. You would have to at least count the Lit. Discussion threads we created. But even then, you should be counting threads, not posts, if you're going to make a comparison about whether our posts contribute literarily. And I could not make those statistics better. As far as I see, there is no reason for me to post more writing threads when I'm not done with what I have posted. And I'm not a poet, sadly. There are no other works for me to post. (Actually, there are, but no one gets to read them yet because I have to post chronologically, and I have not figured out how to set the first chapter.)

Eh, so enough stats-bashing.

I'm going to admit I don't crit much here, because I seem to have a preference for critting fantasy that as at a precise level of ability. And considering the amount of people that join and subsequently post their work, there aren't too many writers posting right now at the level I look for. I also prefer to crit people who are serious about publishing. So there's a problem with me. That's not to say there are pieces on here that I haven't critted because they aren't good enough. I just ... haven't gotten around to them yet.

A quick suggestion: Is the writing page is prominent enough? What if we made the writing page the home page of the forum? That would force some focus on writing, in the simplest way ...

And from there, I stop criticizing and write something for the magazine, in hopes that I could submit it before you close subs. Now, I've already written like three stories for the magazine -- but none of them feel right.

And have we somehow still managed to turn Zombified's parting message into a dramatic thread?
Corkscrewed alienation, rocking red. A kill. Joys again.
-- Alex

My mother is a fish.
						Last edited by Carraka; 02-05-2009 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 02-05-2009, 03:39 PM View Post #8 (Link)
Lizzie (Offline)
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You know what. Zomb did scare me, put never scared me off the site. Everytime I though "Zomb you are being a hard arse and I hate your guts" I had to stop and think for a moment that what he was saying was right, and he was only trying to keep the site to its purpose, and if being harsh is the way to do that then being harsh it is. I will miss him greatly. Everything he has taught me not to do will remain in me and everyone else in this site.

So thanks Zomb, and good luck for the future.
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Old 02-05-2009, 03:56 PM View Post #9 (Link)
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Iím new here, but I think this forum is genuinely free forum
in contrast of YWS. Maybe only it is need of more new ideas.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:09 PM View Post #10 (Link)
appleofmyeye (Offline)
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I honestly agree with what Dio and Zomb said. YWO isn't fufilling its purpose. Maybe because I'm a newb I have no room to talk. But they are absolutly right and I am partially to blame.

I joined YWO because I wanted to improve my writing, because, frankly, it sucked . Y'all may not have noticed it, but my first few weeks I acted different. Okay, I'm sure I'm the only one that noticed that but anyway. I was very serious about this. I tried to sound smart, to impress people, and I was scared to say something wrong. After getting to know you guys though, that all went out the window. I started acting like my random, silly, but still (sometimes) coherent self. Eventually I forgot why I was here. But whenever the issue came up in December that YWO was deteriorating, I felt guilty. I knew I hadn't been doing shit for the past three months. I started reading peoples work, tried to critique them, ect. That's when I realized I was nowhere nearly as talented as most of you. I looked over everything I had written and I was embarrased. I tried to reason that I'm on a site that would help me improve. And I have improved. But I just lost my will. I haven't written in months. I'm very depressed about it. I've tried everything I could but anything I write comes out as forced crap. I really don't know what to do.

I should leave YWO. I don't belong here. I hate to say I'm not a writer anymore. I want to be, I'd love to be, but I've lost it. When I first thought of leaving here I opened up a document and ended up staring at it for an hour. I'm still reluctant though. But it's people like me that just loaf around on here who are ruining the site. It'd be for the best if I leave, I know that. I'd miss everyone so much though. I'm really not sure what to do.

It's people like Dio and Zomb that are willing to face the facts. We may not what to listen to it, and we'll make up excuses for our behavior, but it's still true. Zomb leaving really makes me look at some things. He did what I cannot. I think everyone should stop blaming people and circumstances and look at themselves for what is going on. That is all.
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