What you haven't seen

[graystripe79]

To add on to Shaun's "What annoys you in fantasy books? (the cliche things that drive you mad)" I want to know what you would like to see in Fantasy books. For me personally, the name Tim Burton comes to mind. I just think it would be cool if fantasy writers made fantasy a little bit more twisted, sick, bordering horror.

[Dabs]

You can always look up dark fantasy if you want that darker element.

As a lover of epic, rather, secondary world fantasy, I'd love to see people moving away from the "chosen one has to save the world" model and toward something a little bit more personal. I don't see why other fiction writers allow for internal conflict to be the center of a story and fantasy writer's don't. There's always some greater political or magical conflict that overshadows the personal stories.

[Iridescence]

You can always look up dark fantasy if you want that darker element.

As a lover of epic, rather, secondary world fantasy, I'd love to see people moving away from the "chosen one has to save the world" model and toward something a little bit more personal. I don't see why other fiction writers allow for internal conflict to be the center of a story and fantasy writer's don't. There's always some greater political or magical conflict that overshadows the personal stories.

(Neil Gaiman and China Melville are like the Tim Burtons of fantasy. I think Stephen King has a fantasy series, as well. Try them out, Gray.)

And I agree, Dabs. I generally love alternate world fantasy better than urban fantasy, but what epics have in scope they lack in intimate character development you see in realistic/historical/other fiction. I'd really like to see more epic first-person fantasy. Marry intimacy with scope.

Also, I'd like to see more female characters that step out of the mold of "Harsh-at-first-but-becomes-nicer-as-the-hero-wins-her-over" Action Girls. What about the quirky females that aren't side characters, but actual protagonists? What about the girls with pecullar, fascinating interests and goals beyond being on the arm of the hero or saving the world? What about the girls with a legit sense of humor, the ones that aren't just snark machines popping out sarcastic/scathing remarks twice a page, but actually saying funny things?

Aaaaand I'd like to see the creation of new magic systems. You've got your elementals. You've got your necromancers. You've got your sparky wands. I want mawr.

[graystripe79]

Ok, yes I asked this question to add on to Shauns post, but at the same time, I kind of had a secondary motive. *awkward smile* I want to find how to mkae my own personal stories better. So Iridescence, I totally get what your saying when you say the main female characters are either super badass or weak both physically and mentally that they need a hero to save them. What you want instead is a realistic girl to be the main of a fantasy novel? I guess I just didnt fallow what you said....

[Alice Glitterhorn]

(Neil Gaiman and China Melville are like the Tim Burtons of fantasy.

IT'S 'MIEVILLE'.

i'm not really yelling, you know i love you, but mieville is my man. :P

What do I want to see in fantasy? Really, I just want something new. I'm tired of dragons. I'm tired of elves. I'm tired of people shooting sparks from their fingertips, or reading about some farm kid that will defeat the big baddie. I'm tired of angels and demons(lolhypocrite).

I want fantasy that seems so real it's like you could visit there. Not something like middle earth, but something like Mieville's Bas-Lag. Where characters and their motives are undeniably human, no matter what their race, and there is more stinking ghetto than pristine wonderland. I want deeper characters, a whole range of different relationships.

[Iridescence]

Ok, yes I asked this question to add on to Shauns post, but at the same time, I kind of had a secondary motive. *awkward smile* I want to find how to mkae my own personal stories better. So Iridescence, I totally get what your saying when you say the main female characters are either super badass or weak both physically and mentally that they need a hero to save them. What you want instead is a realistic girl to be the main of a fantasy novel? I guess I just didnt fallow what you said....

Well, you always want realistic characters in your novels. "Realistic" as in they're fleshed-out and lifelike, no matter the species or powers or whatever. In terms of female characters, I want girls and women that have their own motivations/goals/dreams/quirks beyond being a foil/love interest/rival to the "hero." Does that make sense?


IT'S 'MIEVILLE'.

i'm not really yelling, you know i love you, but mieville is my man. :P

I soz. :P

[Bowie20049]

The problem with having both epic world scope and good characters is that an author generally wants people to either know about the character or the world. If you have both of them with let's say equal amounts of epic, then they're competing on what the story is about. Does the author want to tell the reader about the world or does the author want people to sympathize/empathize with the character?

[Dabs]

The problem with having both epic world scope and good characters is that an author generally wants people to either know about the character or the world. If you have both of them with let's say equal amounts of epic, then they're competing on what the story is about. Does the author want to tell the reader about the world or does the author want people to sympathize/empathize with the character?

I think this can be solved by having a secondary world that isn't overly dense. You don't need to ramble on about the past 10,000 years of history, or the specific cultures of every single inch of the world. That would be akin to Edith Wharton having given the entire history of New York while she wrote The Age of Innocence. Not everyone is from New York, and not everyone's been there, but you don't need the entire history of the place to become immersed into the story.

I also agree with your stance on female characters, though I am partial to bad-ass chicks myself. Being a HUGE Xena fan, I think a powerful woman can make for a compelling story, but there needs to be something more to it than just her strength. Like, in Xena, she's fighting to redeem her dark past, and a lot of the villains and conflicts are formed around that metaphysical battle, as well as her relationship with her best friend--who I believe is a much more original take on the strong woman idea.

I'm actually trying to work on a female character right now who has some Xena influence.

[Bowie20049]

World doesn't have to be just history behind it. Some people seem to try to condense a painting and convert it into text. It's like trying to can a whole pizza while somehow keeping the freshness of an oven-baked pizza.

Either way, a balance between world and character is very difficult to solve because then it'll just turn into the reader deciding on what they like the best instead of "I liked the characters and the world the best"

Now some people can probably say that to Harry Potter or Narnia, but what can they go on and on about more? Let's say someone likes both the world of Harry Potter and the characters, but she has a lot more to say about Fred and George. Well obviously she loves Fred and George a lot more than the world itself.

Having a character or the world stick out more is not a bad thing though. It makes the story a lot less jumbled and more solidly paced. Just look at the Star Wars prequels. They tried to do a character study of Anakin Skywalker within a space adventure. They loved visual effects and they had moments with Anakin, but it went from slow-fast-slow-fast-slow-fast, which became one of the many downfalls of the Star Wars prequels. Now if you say it's a movie and that's different than writing, then you're wrong because the movie is a form of writing :P

[Dabs]

I totally agree that movies are a part of writing. In fact that's usually a big thing that I pay attention to in a movie.

I agree that a world doesn't just have history, but often times history plays a big part in the development of a fantasy world, so I used that idea to make my point.

I don't think that a balance between world development and character development should be that hard to find. You just need to decide what your story is about. Personally, I think you can have some strong world development while making the characters the prominent facet. You just need to find a way to tie their personal problem into something more grand. Like, Odysseus's journey in The Odyssey is a largely personal one, but Homer still finds a way of creating a world, mythology, and meta-mythology around his plight.

[Peppermental]

I want to see some epic literotica, but with strong fantasy elements. Angelic paladin has a forbidden romance with a voodoo necromancer, but is promised to a demon warlock in order to end the constant holy war. After several epic love scenes, the paladin is impregnanted by the necromancer, and her angel daddy (god) kills the baby at birth, but the necromancer brings it back and it becomes the bringer of a total apocalypse. this story is fucking brilliant.

[Jack]

I want to see some epic literotica, but with strong fantasy elements. Angelic paladin has a forbidden romance with a voodoo necromancer, but is promised to a demon warlock in order to end the constant holy war. After several epic love scenes, the paladin is impregnanted by the necromancer, and her angel daddy (god) kills the baby at birth, but the necromancer brings it back and it becomes the bringer of a total apocalypse. this story is fucking brilliant.

Predictable.

[Peppermental]

Predictable.

Predictable.

[lostbookworm]

Predictable.
Predictable.

Erotic and predictable.