Sex and Novels

[Zaphkiel]

Do you think sex scenes in novels make it a bit more interesting to read sometimes? Seeing that sex is an interesting topic to the public.

[Andy]

The impression I got from several writing books is that you should only include sex in your book if your intended audience enjoys it. For example, adding in one sex scene at some point in your story is a bad idea if you're only doing it to try to appeal to a bigger audience. The people who like the rest of the book will feel like you're being manipulative, and those who do prefer sexy novels won't like your book just for one scene. My suggestion: do a lot of it, or none of it.

[Nyx]

I was going to say what Andy said, except he said it so much better that I won't bother.:rolleyes:

[Zaphkiel]

I agree with, Andy.

[Rafael Domination]

Personally, I use subliminal messages in my novel (sometimes) or just really cute scenes using really attractive characters in a situation where the audience will say 'Kiss!'

But yeah, not really a big fan of sex in novels. It's just too dull.

[Andy]

It's just too dull.
Sex is cliche. And all cliches must be avoided at ALL costs. :D

[Rafael Domination]

Especially the one where characters go crazy over each other after a big fight.


I mean, seriously :D

[Zombified]

I see no problem with it.
I've put it into my work before, and I have no regrets about it.

People don't have sex all the time, so if they do it once or twice in a book, I feel its okay.

[Imelda]

It's only ok if you actually need the sex scene. If it makes no difference whether it's there or not, then just don't put it in. Rather than expanding your audience, I think you're cutting it down--there are prudes out there who won't read it. :P

[Alex]

Just like Imelda said

Sex doesn't appeal to a large audience when you add it in, but it takes away from your audience. That being said if it adds a needed element to the story then, for the sake of a novel, it should be added, but if it isn't needed then keep it out becuase you reduce the size of your audience that will read it .

[Crocolyle]

What really matters is how explicit it is: whether the description of sexual acts is hinted at or even briefly (and somewhat vaguely) described, like in Orson Scott Card's Homecoming series, or more actively described like in certain Stephen King novels, or full blown erotica (which I can't think of any titles or authors for, because I don't read smut :-P)

As Imelda hinted at, it's also important whether or not the sexual acts that take place "on stage" are meant to be erotic or are meant to further the plot. In the cases of Homecoming, and (for the most part) King's writing, it does... But I personally doubt erotica, whose dominant theme taken as a whole appeals to prurient interests, would. I mean sex in that would be the plot, wouldn't it?

[Hannah-Rose]

I don't think a writer should ever feel compelled to censor their work if they feel that what they're writing is artistically valid. If you're simply putting sex in your work for no other reason than trying to make people read it, then obviously you need to write better to start off with, but I don't think it's crass to put it in. We're allowed to put death and suffering in, but not a natural and beautiful part of human life? I find the idea of exploring the relationship between to characters through their physical interaction to be quite an interesting one, and certainly not something that should be instantly labelled as vulgar or crude.

[Carraka]

I would have posted something here, but everyone stole all my points. On the other hand, no one has mentioned GRRM, which I should do ... I mean, his book was probably the first book-written-for-adults book that I ever read.

When I recommend it to people (which is often,) I always have to make sure they're okay with the explicit sex inside (which is not often). I try to explain to parents that the sex is important to the plot and to the characters -- it's not just there to please the masses; it's not erotica. They're never convinced, but then again, they never screen the book for their children.

So in my mind, as long as you're writing the sex to advance the plot and character development, it's all right. I guess you would want to keep in mind your audience level too. For instance, I can't write sex into EC because my parents are reading it. They've told me that they won't blow up if I write something inappropriate, because they don't want to mess up my writing career. Yeah -- I don't believe them. xD

So yeah. Plot and character development. Unless you're writing erotica.

[jordanisonfire]

If I ever write a sex scene into my novel, I'll write it up to the part where they get on the bed or whatever, then cut it. The rest is irrelevant, really, and I'm not good at describing love or passion without making it incredibly cliché.

[Hannah-Rose]

I have to have a sex scene in my novel - and more then one mildly 'erotic' scenes, because the plot wouldn't make sense without it. Because then the boy gets branded as a satanist and corruptor of innocent youth etc etc - which, without a strong sexual element to the relationship just wouldn't work as well.

[Shaun]

How the heck did I miss this thread?

My opinion on this is a big yes or no. It really depends. Remember, when you put somewhat controversial subjects into a book you are going to lose a certain chunk of your audience. Some people aren't going to want to read about sex, others might enjoy it. You might gain new readers because of sex to replace those lost readers, or you might not. It all depends. You also have to think about what kind of sex. If the sex is hinted at or 'obvious' in the sense that you know it's going on, but it's not shown, that's probably not going to bug anyone, but if it's graphic like erotica, it is going to severely limit who will read your work. Anything in the middle is hit or miss. Some people don't mind a little sex, others hate it, and others are indifferent.
For me I think it all comes down to context. If you have a sex scene for no reason, I'm not really going to like it. I need a valid reason for it to exist. This is often why I don't like erotic fiction (I've read some erotic SF and F), because the sex is so stupid and pointless it just gets in the way. Look, MOST people don't run around shooting laser guns and suddenly thinking "I want to screw and be screwed by some big muscular man with a gargantuan member". Seriously, most people don't think that way. They might think "hey, that muscular man is hot, maybe I'll ask him out and we'll go to my place..." and maybe they'll have sex, but in the context the former has no purpose while the latter might serve to demonstrate who the character is (that's iffy though, it all depends how that's used). Erotic fiction tends to be highly unrealistic, and I'm sure that's the appeal for the readers. I like sex in stories to be real. Characters should do it because it's natural to them or because it is right.
On the subject of rape...not a big fan...I've only read one book where the rape was bearable, but since then no rape scene has ever helped a book...it just hurt it for me.

[Hannah-Rose]

So you're saying the entire purpose of a book should be that it's enjoyable to read? But what if you're writing from an artistic point of view? Art isn't always enjoyable. Rape in books is there to make you feel uncomfortable, to make you feel sick - the highest aim of art (in the opinion of many modern artists) is to provoke a visceral reaction; it's not about aesthetic, it's about getting something through.

I agree that books should be realistic, but in that way shouldn't we include the sex scenes? But rather than having the idealised unrealistic erotic that so much writing is plagued with, include what is messy, uncomfortable, unpretty, about sex.

[Shaun]

If all you want to do is get a visceral reaction from me, then I'm not going to read it. A rape scene is pretty much the easiest way to turn me off from your work, unless it is done well enough so it doesn't bug me as much. Art is fine and all, but a lot of people aren't interested in reading about rape, molestation, etc. in an artistic sense. That's where I draw the limit.
And yes, if you feel that your characters should have a sex scene because it fits them, then have it, but it should have a PURPOSE to be there. Sex just for the hell of it is just, well, stupid. And it's perfectly realistic for you to hint that there is sex going on. Some people never talk about sex with other people, or talk about their sex, so it would fit the character in that instance.

[jordanisonfire]

I agree with Hannah-Rose. Not all literature is there to be enjoyed. Take the Bible, for instance. That wasn't really meant to be an enjoyable book, it was to show the teachings of God etc. If you don't like it, fine, don't read it.

[Rafael Domination]

Funny thought, if anyone thought the Bible was a rated G book, then they are seriously mistaken. There are a lot of sins portrayed in the book, from incest to outright murder, and that was meant to make the reader acknowledge those are wrong by making them uncomfortable concerning human behaviour. It works sometimes, and with others, it doesn't. So that point, I agree with Hannah and Shad.

HOWEVER...as Shaun said, writing to make ones readers uncomfortable just for the sake of it is utter nonsense. I'm an artist myself, and the 'artistic point of view' can work the other way around too - it doesn't always have to be some abstract, dark, melancholy, 'Scream-Painting' type of thing. Art can be light, funny, down-to-earth as well. The main point is, there should always be a purpose for something, and often that purpose, if skillfully built into the book, can eliminate the 'awkward/uncomfortable' feel to it. Even if it doesn't (I've read this book about some depressed girl who got raped, but managed to get over it in the end; it was written by the same author who wrote Catalyst) it can still make the book enjoyable, even with that haunting feeling afterwards.

[jordanisonfire]

Well, yeah, just doing it to make people feel uncomfortable, unless it's something like a horror story, is stupid, I agree with you there. But if it's got meaning behind it, then it should be alright, unless it's meaning is that something like rape or murder is a good thing.

[Rafael Domination]

I SOOOO agree with that! :P

(I agree with your new avatar too. Where d'you get it from?)

[jordanisonfire]

(Just searched a load of like ninja stuff and eventually this came up. ^^)

[Hannah-Rose]

Okay, just to try and make you get the perspective I'm coming from - these are two of my favourite artworks.

Warhol - gun
http://file038b.bebo.com/10/large/2007/10/23/08/4828352004a5900061001l.jpg

Damian Hirst - The physical impossibility of death in the mind of someone living.
http://file038b.bebo.com/6/large/2007/10/23/08/4828352004a5900073564l.jpg

Yes that is the preserved body of a real shark. He does things all kinds of dead animals, in a particularly disturbing work he has a pig cut in half down the middle, each half in it own glass case, the cut side pressed up against the glass, and both cases are on a little motorised thing which makes them travel back and forth across each other. It's incredibly disturbing, which is what makes it so great. It actually creates a physical reaction.

[jordanisonfire]

I think that's quite cool art. As long as he lets the animals die of natural causes, then I'm cool with it.

[Zaphkiel]

Well, in my personal opinion as a novelist *ahem*, I think sex in books is quite enjoyable. I'm not trying to sound like a pervert, but I've read my fair share of explicit sex stories. Of course, sex should only be used when needed or when targeting an audience, it shouldn't just be thrown in for the hell of it.

I will say this however, if I ever write a sex scene, I'll explain all of it, because it wouldn't be a sex scene otherwise. I'm not a horny teenager or anything, this is just what I think.

*Sings* Highschool girls, 1 2 3, highschool girls, all for me!*Sings*

I love being sixteen!:P

[Chie'N'Kadath]

It's all about context. In most cases, as sex in real life is an intimate thing, and intimate things should be private moments between lovers. It is a pet peeve of mine when they use sex just for the sake of adding sexuality when it is unneeded. While it far from ruins novels for me, it definitely detracts a little bit of my enjoyment, the only way it could ruin a novel for me depends on how often it is used. However, if you are reading a novel about.. let's say a romantic drama about a steamy and deceptive love triangle, sex can help push emotion as well as character involvement. But when you have a story, like, lets take a 'Lord of the Rings' style fantasy (I specify LotR because I actually respect it's lack of sex, as it really doesn't need it.) I don't think sex is at all necessary unless it truly has relevence to the story, or emotional involvement of characters. I could probably write an essay on this subject, but that's not what this thread is for.