How do You Prove a Teacher Wrong?

[Andy]

This should be fun. Okay, so I'm currently taking a writing course. 80% reading, 20% workshop. The problem is, my professor has something against science fiction and fantasy. No joke. It's annoying, and she's clearly biased against it.

Me and some others have been arguing against her, and her main point is that why should anyone write about something completely made up, instead of writing about stuff in the real world. "Why do you NOT want to write about the real world?" she asks. "Shouldn't your focus be on the real world, instead of something that doesn't even exist? What can you gain from that?

So, I need an idea for a short story to bring to the workshop. The thing is, I want this story to somehow prove that science fiction and/or fantasy are essential genres, and are just as important as the others.

Problem is, how should I do it? I need ideas for a story like that. :glare:

[Ichigo]

Haha that's kind of funny actually, a pretty crappy situation for you guys but I uzed to have a teacher like that.

I don't really know any ideas, but have you pointed out how fantasy has changed to world? Harry Potter? Lord of the Rings? Where would we be today if not for them.

As for the story ideas...I think I'll think about that a little and re-post here...

[Carraka]

Clearly you need to write something deep and heart-wrenching that looks deep inside mankind and turns the species inside out.

Um ... come back to me in a year. I'll recognize it when I read it, but I can't write it yet.

Or -- you could give her good fantasy books for her birthday. Or good science-fiction books. Either or, you know?

[Andy]

Yeah, I made several points, including the importance of 1984, and that many things once shown in sci-fi are now commonplace, and that thinking about the impossible has resulted in a great many advancements for the human race. :)

[Carraka]

Couldn't argue about the brilliance of fantasy, could you? What are her points?

[Andy]

I mentioned some of her points in the first post. That's the gist of it anyway.

[Imelda]

Umm ... well YA fantasy is essential because it allows classic dilemmas of growing up (becoming independant, going into the big scary world) to be told through analogies. You might only be moving away from home to go to uni, but Mr Bob the Fantasy Character is going on a quest to learn why he can shoot fire out of his hands. It's far-fetched, but I believe it helps a LOT in the growing up process. I'll use the example of Buffy--pretty much all the demons and predators that appear in that show are clearly analogous to situations teens find themselves in (Angel losing his soul after sleeping with Buffy is what a lot of guys go like once they've nicked a girl's virginity. Sure, the guy isn't evil, but the lesson is there). It's a non-threatening environment to introduce these threats and worries to people growing up. I mean, look at fairy stories, used to teach morals! If those aren't fantasy, then what is?

And never underestimate the importance of escapism in those who have already grown up. You're in a boring office job, why the heck would you want to go home and read about someone in a boring office job?

[Andy]

Ooh, thanks, Imelda. I'll try to use that somehow. :devious:

[Imelda]

Good. :D

Or, you could beat her round the head with the collected works of Tolkien. Might make her forget her anti-specfic feelings.

[Shaun]

Andy, this has nothing to do with me liking SF over F, but your best bet is to use near-future SF to try to expand upon something that is important in the world of today. This means perhaps looking at the issues of global warming or something else that is pressing in society technologically and going a few years ahead to show a world where that technology exists and what its effects are. When the teacher reads it and sees how real it is you can simply say "well that's science fiction". SF doesn't have to have space ships and the like. You could write a story about landing on Mars, for instance. We ARE going to go to Mars. We are planning the mission now. It will happen eventually. So, really it's not all that far fetched.

And your teacher is a moron. A good argument against her is to use the following:
1984 by George Orwell is Science Fiction. You can argue against that all you want, it IS SF! Period. It is a story about a future that Orwell came up with dealing with issues of government gone mad. The same can be said of Brave New World by Aldous Huxley.
If you want to mention fantasy, perhaps look at Wagner's Ring Cycle (The Rings of the Nibelung), The Fairy Queen by Edmund Spencer, Paradise Lost, Beowulf, Arthurian Tales, etc. Fantasy is rampant throughout literary history and for your teacher to have an aversion to it is rather disturbing...either she's an idiot who hasn't read anything in the last 100 years, or she simply doesn't want to accept that literature set in worlds that do not exist are prevalent in our written history...or are the Greek myths simply idiotic fantasy that don't deserve to be discussed?

[Andy]

Shaun, you're a genius! I think I know what I'm going to write about now.

[Shaun]

Do your research so that you know how to make it realistic. You don't need those technical details in the story, but if you want it to feel like a real story, a real place, a real time, you need to make sure you know what you're talking about, at least for near-future stories. Far-future doesn't need quite the same sort of research :P

[lango]

Try explaining to the teacher that fantasy is just realism dressed-up?

Dwarves: The miners, the gold-rushers, the ones in love with gems, precious stones, and all priceless materials: over-ambitious men.

Elves: (My personal view haha, I hate elves. I just do.) THe "I feel superior" folk. They believe theyre everything mankind should be. Theyre strong, theyre fair, theyre talented. Theyre mighty arrogant and a pain in the ass.

Goblins and orcs: theyre ugly, theyre greedy, theyre frowned upon by society. Theyre just thugs.

Thats just for fantasy. Sci-Fi usually involves a bad ruler, bad governor, an evil guy. Earth has seen its fair share of that. You mask it, you sugar-coat it, or pepper-coat it by exaggerating on the bad side, but for me, its all based on real stuff. :P

[sXe_Jinxeh]

There are so many points that you can use about this. The ideas of fantasy are what almost every human culture has been based on, at least historically. Some of the greatest events in the history of the world were based on fantasy, and therefore if the fantastic worlds hadn't of existed, some of the greatest tales of the past would not. (Example: Christopher Columbus sailing around the world and discovering the Americas was all because of he wanted to disprove the theory that the world was flat)

From a literature standpoint, show your teacher a bunch of old (or even new) fantasies/science fictions. They are always used to make satirical and social narrative comments, and even in modern books like HP 7, you can find references to history. (I don't know about the rest of you, but that book seemed like an entire narrative on the rise and fall of communism in the USSR)

But, here's another thing. You have to be very careful with the way you do this, lest you'll have your teacher hating you and it will be a very long workshop. Talking from experience here. My English teacher hates me becasue I proved her wrong about something last year, and she teaches my English class this semester, and English 30-1. So, be careful what you say.

[Shaun]

That's one thing I would be concerned about with Andy's professor. He/she doesn't sound like the type that would be happy to be proven wrong. I know some professors who would really be glad to get new information, but Andy's professor seems more like to type to really hold it against Andy.

[Christy]

You can always argue that even if she thinks that fantasy and sci-fi and pointless, the authors that write them are some of the most financially successful careers, such as J.K. Rowling, Stephanie Meyer, Tolkein, the author of Eragon (I don't care enough for the books to know his name or look it up) and a few of them became successful in their writing exetremely quickly. So even if it's pointless, it's profitable. And in this world, isn't that what counts?

Also note that Star Trek, the very essence of TV sci-fi (I know I'm terrible for bringing TV and films into literary disscussions) inspired a lot of new technology. The idea for being able to play any song on demand (iTunes!) came from Star Trek, as did plenty of other technology I just can't recall of the top of my head.

And like Shaun said, George Orwell is an incredible fantasy/sci-fi author. Animal Farm is not realistic in the fact that these are all animals doing all of these things, but it had so many parelells to the USSR and if you look at it that way, it's incredibly realistic. That doesn't count for anything? True, sometimes it's just easier to create your own world and rules (it saves for a lot of research), I see the point there, but to just be so ignorant to such a vast and successful genre is just that, ignorant.

And look at Michael Crichton. So many of his books have been made into incredible blockbusters like Jurassic Park. Ridiculous, but he winds it with such intelligence and believeablity that it's hard to just dismiss it because it falls into a certain genre. And environmental thrillers are become really hot on the market and are indeed a form of sci-fi (Crichton's tapped into this trend too). Your professor can argue all she wants, but that's not going to change the fact that major sci-fi/fantasy writers are some of the most successful writers in the world. J.K Rowling, Stephanie Meyer, Tokein, Stephen King, George Orwell, Michael Crichton, M. Night Shyamalan, Stephen Spielberg, George Lucas, they all tap into this and are INCREDIBLY successful with sci-fi/fantasy. And I would bet you my college fund that your professor has paid to read/view these people's work, despite the fact she claims to have a distaste for fantasy/sci-fi. It's definitely profitable, there's no denying there's a market for it. And if there's a market, there's a point.

[Rafael Domination]

That's one thing I would be concerned about with Andy's professor. He/she doesn't sound like the type that would be happy to be proven wrong. I know some professors who would really be glad to get new information, but Andy's professor seems more like to type to really hold it against Andy.


Just let him try to take a hack at Andy. There are a lot of reasons why that won't be a very wise decision:

1) It won't work, so he shouldn't even consider that cuz' it'll be a waste of his time

2) The Professor is fighting a losing battle (yes, I went there) against the invincible genres of Sci-fi and Fantasy. He can't possibly be smarter than a million Fantasy + Sci-fi fans and writers. And if that mass of people can't get enough of those two genres then it's proof that they hold significance in society.

3) While I don't mind realistic genres, Sci-fi and Fantasy are vital because it explores the one thing that belongs to humans that cannot be limited: their imagination.

4) I'll eat him (slowly) if he flames Andy for being correct. ^^

[Zombified]

Speaking of teachers....

I had a gig tonight, a talent show for students. Instead of playing one song like I was supposed to, I played two.

Here's what I was told by the angry teacher who runs the venue said to me.

Its a whole rant I wrote...

Let me just say, Ms. Stratton is the most disrespectful, rude, and malicious teacher at our school.


She yelled at me after my set for playing TWO songs instead of ONE.


I will show you our conversation as best I can remember...

"I need to talk to you," Ms. Stratton hissed.

"Yeah?" I replied.


"What you did tonight was the most disrespectful, and rudest thing I have ever seen in my 40 years of Drama".


"What can I say? I'm a rebel. The audience payed for a long show, so I helped give them that.
"

"This wasn't about the audience! It was your ego! It was you trying to be cool in front of your friends.
"

"No...it was about putting on a show worth the money that the people paid.
"
"It was three dollars!"

"You know money is tight nowadays.
"

"You're a senior right?"

"Yeah," I answered.


"Well I can't do anything, but if you were younger you would be banned from my theater. What you did tonight was horrible. The audience rolled their eyes and sighed when you played that second song. They didnt' want to hear another one! It's hot in here, and they didn't like your song.
You will never make it in the music business with your attitude, never!"

"Right. Because I played more than one song that the audience cheered for, I am never going to make it as a musician? Okay. Whatever you say.
"

After that she let me into the theater with a scowl and that was it.


Aint that a bitch?
I'm banned from the theater because I played ONE song more than I was supposed to.


If playing music that the audience payed for is breaking the rules, then I am a God damned criminal.

[Rafael Domination]

You can rant about this all you want in the 'Crybabies' thread I made. Yeah, teachers can be quite Nazi sometimes. We'll just have to bear with it.