Attack of the Cliches!

[ScottyMcGee]

This post is going to be very long over time as I add onto it. I just wanted to get started already.
Eventually, someday, this post will cover every single genre as I study each of their cliches. This isn't an attempt to try to bring some people down in their stories, but simply for them to be aware of the traditional cliches and maybe some ways to make the story unique.

I was making notes today after a very close friend of mine critiqued my story "The Second Knight," which I am in the process of revisiting and revising.
I then realized a conundrum in my writing.
Whenever I want to put meaning into a certain story, I think it's the best thing ever written.
It ends up being a piece of shit.
Whenever I don't put meaning into a certain story, and I just sorta flow with whatever comes to mind. I think it's a piece of shit.
It ends up being the greatest piece of writing ever.
Then sometimes this happens:
Whenever I'm unexcited or feel particularly lackluster about a story, the grammar is affected too. I've thus concluded that bad grammar is synonymous with bad stoytelling. Or at least, being unenthusiastic. It's quite simple really. If you have no idea where the story is going, chances are the grammar is going to awkward and confusing. You're indecisive, you change things suddenly, you forgot to change other things previously from those changes, etc.
So what does this have to do with cliches?
When writers get stuck like I do, they resort to cliches, that's why.
Why do we cliché?
Sometimes it's subconscious, we don't even know that we're conforming to a certain norm in a particular genre. We make up characters and plots and backgrounds and we call that “original,” but we don't realize that “it's all been done before.”
Let's start with Fantasy.
Here's how I broke it down.

First, there's Traditional Fantasy


1.Archetype Characters – You always have your archetypal characters in every genre. The silent assassin, the cheap-joke fool, the young hero, the damsel in distress, the evil dictator, etc. Here are a list of those usually found in a fantasy story:

The Mentor::sorcerer: Usually played by some old man with a knowledge of the world before the main character's birth. The mentor used to be part of some secret organization or is a revered senior member of some great band of heroes that is now extinct. He or she has superior knowledge of magic or some otherworldly force that must be taught to the main character.

The Young Hero::sword: Born and raised in a sheltered lifestyle, dreaming to become a hero. He or she represents innocence, nativity, and the process of growing up. In reality, they're just whiny, bitchy teenagers wanting to swing around a sword. A female protagonist is a nice change, but the sheltered lifestyle is where the cliché is at heart.

The Damsel in Distress: :love:You know it, you've all seen it. Locked away in a tower, either captured for her beauty or for her secret powers. Sometimes a twist is tried when the damsel is tough and independent. Yawn. That won't change a thing.

The Jester: :P He's the fool of the story. Some sort of bumbling idiot usually not even human and is instead a funny-looking creature. If used incorrectly, he strains the story so much with bad jokes the reader will want to choke him.

The Ruler of the Universe: :devil:Here he is, the big bad guy. Leader of a huge empire. Clothed completely and unable to see his face. Everyone bow to his will. He's so powerful. Yeah. Okay. It's getting boring to even type about it.

2. Cliched Elements

So what are the story elements that always appear in fantasy? Here's what I found:

- A secret and ancient race of elves. What is it with elves now? Ever since Tolkien everybody's been copying the idea of elves being rare and mystical. A memorable twist on this was in fact for a video game, The Legend of Zelda. All inhabitants of Hyrule are elves.

- An empire grows and takes over the world, :roman:with a small rebellion pushing back. For sci-fi, it was Star Wars, for fantasy, it was Tolkien. You have no idea how many times this plot line has resurfaced not only in literature but in movies and video games. The rebel team also has some rag-tag appeal with a name like “The Returners” or “Brotherhood of the Sword.”

-Teenagers saving the world. It all started with C.S. Lewis. Then not so much afterwards, but after Harry Potter a PLETHORA of teenage-fantasy fiction spread. The teenagers usually “discover” some mystical world, try to save it, all while managing relationships.

-A hero with an unknown past. Wakes up in some dungeon or underground cell or maybe even a lab. Tries to figured out who he is. This is so cliche it's spread out even to non-fantasy genres, such as The Bourne Identity and the video game Geist. Sometimes, it can just be some mysterious assassin that never reveals about his background. :ninja:

-A band of warriors set out together to save the world. No. Just. No. NO. This is like, EVERY fantasy now. A troop of warriors holding hands together to defeat the evil wizard. No. Just no.

-Cheap dialogue with the villain. I hate this cliche the most. There's a final confrontation, and the bad guy starts "monologuing" and the good guy retorts with some stupid comeback like "You can't escape your fate!"
The following is a PERFECT example of a very cliche confrontation-dialogue. This is taken from Eragon between Durza and Eragon

Durza: "So, my young Rider, we meet again. You were foolish to escape from me in Gil'ead. It will only make things worse for you in the end."
Eragon: "You'll never capture me alive."
Durza: "Is that so? I don't see your 'friend' Murtagh around to help you. You can't stop me now. No one can!"

Wow.
That dialogue has "cliche" written all over it.

Sorry for any Paolini fans out there, but I HATE Eragon. The entire story is a perfect example of the Traditional Fantasy Cliche that I have just broken down up above. The outline of the plot is a direct copy of Star Wars (not saying it's intentional, but just cliche).

3. Remedies for Cliches

So what should we do?
Obviously, be aware of the stereotypes and archetypes. But what if you're just downright stuck?
Here are some things I suggest to kick-start your fantasy story into something unique:

-Create your own monsters/race. We already know the world of elves, orcs, dwarves, and the usual suspects.

-Lack of mythological creatures. Maybe have no creatures at all, but a focus on humans and magic or sorcery.

-A hero with a big internal conflict. Forget the "Superman" type of hero and especially the "Young Hero." Maybe start out with someone who's evil, but eventually becomes good. Or have him/her be reluctant or an antihero. Start out with someone who already has experience. Maybe that paladin is in a crusade and he's questioning his religion's actions. Or someone is ostracized from his or her race or group. Etc.

-Rearrange archetypes. Like what Andy said below.

-First-person view. I think this is a BIG one. You don't really see any first-person viewed fantasy stories do you? They are incredibly rare, and the only series I can think of is the Pendragon series. It's an interesting idea. Maybe think about what goes on in a knight's head, or how the king :king: really feels indecisive about a certain war, or maybe, like my story The Eighth Continent, get into one of the minds of the teenagers trying to save the world. What does he/she think about all this? How do they react? What will their friends say?

-Different type of magic or no magic at all. Either one works fine. Just avoid the typical "Harry Potter" magic of potions and books. One GREAT example is a short story I read called "The Osteomancer's Son," by Greg van Eekhout. You can probably find it online. In that story, magic was said to be inside people's bones and spirit. If you go with no magic, then the focus could be on chivalry or parallel worlds, or WHATEVER. It doesn't HAVE to be magical to be considered fantasy.

-An original background. Make those damn elves unholy already. What about celestial beings instead?:angel: What if dwarfs didn't have mines in the mountains? What about female dwarfs?

-Have the journey a singular, personal journey. Instead of the "Final Fantasy Appeal," which is having a bunch of heroes journey together side-by-side, have it a personal journey of one character. If more, then very little, the most three.



Next section coming soon: Sci-fi. Fiction
Note: May take some time for me to read things and compare and analyze.

[Andy]

Nice work. Loved the Zelda reference!

I think you should add that it's not too hard to take an archetype and make it more memorable/original. For example, take the fool and make him smart. Or make the mentor a young woman instead. It's easy to do, and your characters will be forgotten far less easily.

[Shaun]

You can also take characters like evil ruler and make them more interesting by actually applying politics and reality behind them. Evil rulers don't end up being evil rulers just because they are evil, which is the cliche by the way. So going into it by trying to show that even though they are evil, they are efficient rulers, and applying strong, stern politics that live underneath the story can really help use that cliche for better causes.

[ScottyMcGee]

ATTACK OF THE CLICHES PART 2: Fiction

First of all, I know I said I'd do Sci-fi next, but I decided to do another one that I already know.

Second, I posted again not just to bump the topic but because YWO limits ten smileys to one post... :[

Anyway, SO...

The fiction novel.

Anything from historical fiction, to teenage dramas, to action thrillers, and adventures. I'm NOT including mystery. Mystery has a specific set, so yeah. I'll just knock out a bunch at one time doing just Fiction.

1. Cliched Stories

For regular fiction, it's hard to keep a single list for archetype characters, or rather, archetype of anything. The characters are free-spirited and improvised. But what about just plain cliched stories?

-"The-and-then-he-woke-up" story.:sleep: In which the conclusion to the plot is in fact a dream sequence, a trippy drug ride, or some sort of weird illusion.

-"The-teenagers-stranded-in-the-middle-of-nowhere-with-a-killer-or-monster-story."
I guess I made that too self-explanatory. :P But you know what I mean. A bunch of "hot" girls and guys go on some trip in the woods, everyone's all happy and drunk, then out of nowhere some monster comes in and terror is on the loose.

-"The-I-Hate-Life" story. Stories like Apathy or Office Space (Not a book, I know, but just an example). These stories ARE okay if they avoid the first-person. There are too many cynical stories about the "dull, humdrum life" in the first person. It's also okay only if there's a really good plot line. But if you're just ranting about life, it's too cliche.

-"The-That-Can't-Possibly-Happen" story. O_o Incredible things just happen...incredibly. Then you're just stepping into fantasy or sci-fi.

-"The-Suck-On-This-You-Bitch" story. In which the main character takes revenge (usually horrific) on a past spouse, or a brother, or a rival.

-"The-I'm-Sorry-I-Called-You-A-Bitch" story. In which the main character visits a dying evil parent, spouse, family member, rival, etc. And he or she tries to reconcile by remembering to the good times instead of the bad.

-"The-I-Don't-Know-Why-I'm-Telling-You-All-This" story. :recite: In which there is much more "show and tell" than actual character development or plot progression. He did this, then did that, for this long and for this reason. After that he went to the bathroom, making sure to close the lid, and then washed his hands thoroughly with a Dove barsoap---JUST SHUT UP AND GET TO THE F@#!@ POINT ALREADY!

- "The-We're-On-The-Road" story. In which a group of average characters with really nothing to do just take a road trip to find meaning in their lives.

-"The-Quest-For-The-Last-Cookie" story. In which the main character(s) go through a huge quest for the last cookie in the cookie jar, or some other trivial object.

-"The-My-Life-Sucks-So-Cry-For-Me" story. In which the main character is a victim to everything around him/her.

-"The-Moral-Of-The-Story" story. In which the main character does something to his or her life that changes it forever, regrets it, but then later on realizes it's for the better.

-"The-Government-Is-Watching-You" story.:hide: America or some other notable world power is a fascist regime and someone who is acting different tries to make a change.

-"The-I-Just-Graduated-And-Dunno-What-To-Do-With-My-Life" story. :smart:Some teenager just graduates from college, or maybe fails out of it, and thus goes on a personal reflection of life and growing up.

-"The-Not-Another-Teenager-Drama" story. Girls gossiping, jocks trying to balance life and sports, nerds trying to take pictures of girls in the locker room. You get the idea.

-"The-Just-Because-I'm-Not-Called-James-Bond-Doesn't-Mean-This-Spy-Story-About-A-Suave-Agent-Is-Cliche"
Again, self explanatory. Suave secret agents. No. That's been done beyond cliche. BEYOND cliche. First person? Even MORE cliche. Now you're just trying to act like Dashiell Hammett.

-"The-OMG-This-Treasure-Is-So-Controversial" story. In which the main characters suddenly become treasure hunters seeking to find some scroll that is proof of Jesus Christ banging some chick and having offspring. Either that or there's secret messages in a famous author or artist's work that will change all history as we know it. OH...MY...GAWD! :O Oh and it's usually an average guy teaming up with some hot "computer programmer-type" chick.

Okay, I think that's well enough cliches for now (told you it was an attack of them).

2. Remedies for Fiction Cliches

So, like fantasy, what do we do if we're stuck on a cliched story?

I believe that for Fiction there is one MAJOR remedy that works all the time (at least most). Unlike fantasy, where you have to think about it because there's certain traditional rules and guidelines, fiction can go anywhere.

So here it is.

Improvise.

That's it.

Improvise.

Improvise?

Yes, improvise.

Improvisation is one of-if not THE-best ways to avoid cliches. Why? Because they're random and unique. You just take a character like an action figure and make him or her walk through different environments and watch what happens. As you progress you define it more, make a bit of an expanded world, and voila. The thing is, if you try to think to yourself, "I'm going to write a story like such-and-such author" or "such-and-such bestseller," then chances are it WILL be cliche.

Here are some examples of what I believe are truly unique books:

Fight Club, by Chuck Palahniuk
Life of Pi, by Yann Martel
The Children of Men, by P.D. James

There's a reason why I picked these three for now.
They all have some "main strange plot point"

In Fight Club, two men, out of sheer love for self-destruction, create underground fight clubs in bars.

In Life of Pi, a boy is stuck on a boat with a ferocious tiger.

In The Children of Men, all humanity has lost the ability to reproduce.

These situations are unique and strange. I'm not saying that they're all made from improvisation, but improvisation can lead to a weird predicament that is nonetheless very intriguing.
The word I'm looking for is...

Random.

Yes, that's it.

Be random.
:ninja::pirate:


(NOTE: Just so that I don't get misunderstood and crucified for plagiarism, SOME, not all, but SOME of those cliche stories were inspired by Peter Selgin's "By Cunning and Craft" book, which is about advice for writers)

Dunno yet if I'm going to elaborate on this post or make another. Until then, ciao for now.:cool:

[Shaun]

Another excellent post Mr. Sir. Although I have to say I don't agree with you using Fight Club. I don't get the appeal of that story. I feel asleep in the movie...

[Rafael Domination]

Ooh...good job on this...

I can't wait to see what you have in store for sci-fi :D

[Zaphkiel]

Should I call you the cliche master now, Scotty?^_^

[asian-fanatic]

wow~ that was really awesome ^^;
i feel really enlightened ... just .. WOW.
>_< I knew some of them, but it's nice to see them listed~ It's hard to write non cliche.. all the commonly thought of ones are taken 8D
think unique.. ah.. random... so hard.

[Rafael Domination]

Ah, the newb's already getting around. That's good ^^

Seuoo...got anything for sci-fi in mind, Scotty? :D

[ScottyMcGee]

Wow, sorry guys. I TOTALLY forgot about this. I've had so much work lately. But now that things have died down, I'm ready to write about Sci-fi. I'll double-post so that people can see it's been updated.

[ScottyMcGee]

Attack of the Cliches Part 3: Science-Fiction



The one we've all been waiting for.

Okay, so mostly Raffy.

But anyway.

Science-fiction is a very unique category, more so than any other. It has taken me such a long time to critique the genre because there is really no terrible trail anywhere of cliches. Everything is fresh and new. The archetype characters were incredibly hard to find, and I'm not sure if there even are any, except for just two. I don't know if it's really that hard to find any cliches, or if it's because I'm really tired at the moment as I'm typing this. I will definitely end up editing this if I come across a new discovery.
But at least I found something.


1. Archetype Characters

The Rogue - Space bounty hunter, usually a rough male with a hidden past of old flames and rivals. Most of them have been in the war or some military service, but then later went about their own ways. Examples are, Sam McCade (William C. Dietz) and, of course, Han Solo.

The Questioning Robot - A robot that is created and questions the existence of humanity. It goes into a dramatic story of wanting to be human, or, it may even despise humans and go on some rampage. Nevertheless, they drive the story into the boring, yawning, cliche of questioning the mind's consciousness, which is something sci-fi has been notable for.

2. Cliched Elements

"The End of the World is Here Novel" - a lot of science-fiction novels usually portray the future as some dystopia. America becomes communist, or war breaks out amongst the stars. Very few are positive about mankind's future, which might actually be debatable as to which is better, realism or romanticism. In Star Trek, for example, mankind is at peace, one big Federation. It's a romanticized view of the future with chrome walls and no prejudice amongst space-travelers.

"The We're in An Utopia So Let's Hold Hands Novel" - in contrast to the above cliche. Instead of chaos, humanity has reached utopia. People dress the same, do the same, work the same, etc. Usually someone rebels, and the added cliche is that he or she discovers the "outside world" or some "objective truth" and suddenly the utopia is not really seen as a good thing.

"The Oh Shit, We're Lost In Space Novel" - a typical sci-fi story to start out with. In fact, my first science-fiction story a long time ago was simply about a band of stragglers lost in space. This is the typical story someone would write if he or she has no real substance for the "science" part in "science-fiction" and just wants lasers blasting about and spaceships exploding.

"The Really Weird Sci-fi Story That's Not Really Sci-Fi But Not Just Fiction Either And Is Hell To Categorize Story" - notably stories written by Philip K. Dick and Kurt Vonnegut. People argue the categorization of these types of novels. True, the setting is in the future, but the main themes are centered around satire, psychology, and philosophy. But the argument states that just because there are spaceships in the background of the story doesn't automatically make it in "science-fiction" genre. Of course, at the time, these stories were brilliant and a breakthrough, but now if one does it, it feels like a cheap imitation of its predecessors.

"The Twilight Effect Story" - a term I made up based on Sterling's "Twilight Zone" show. Basically it means that at the very end, an eerie truth is revealed that showed the entire story was some experiment, or a dream, or a psychological breakdown.

"Man vs. Machine" - here's a typical one. We've seen it in Asimov's "Robot Series", to Clarke's "2001: A Space Odyssey". And, also, Michael Crichton, who CAN be considered science-fiction, at least I personally do and so in here, he IS considered science-fiction. A typical storyline is "Man makes machine. Machine goes out of control. Man regrets making machine. Man tries to figure out a plan before time runs out."

3. Remedies for Cliches

I feel rather useless writing this section, because honest to God if I can't find any real problems, then I don't really have solutions do I? :)

But here are some tips.


-If you are interested in any science field in particular (whether it be physics, robotics, chemistry, biology, etc.) then start with that. Question this particular field. What if this happened? What if that happened? It will give the story great depth and purpose if the author has a scientific background.

-Try to keep it realistic. Remember, there's no sound in space. Teleportation is an incredibly advanced idea. Try not to make any rules for time-travel too complex. Unlike fantasy, there is a certain boundary for science-fiction, and therefore requires more seriousness. It's okay to have one or more unexplainable things, but be careful when bordering the line of "fantasy."

Notable Science-Fiction Novels:

The Foundation Series by Isaac Asimov - a landmark series. It's uniqueness is centered on it's prediction of sociology. Not only that, but the actual space battles are quite different.

The Dune Series by Frank Herbert - probably bigger than Asimov. Sometimes it's called the "Lord of the Rings of Science-Fiction." The unique aspect of Dune is its focus on the environment and economics, presumably the "spice."

Brave New World by Aldous Huxley - despite being put in the literature section of the bookstore, it is science-fiction. It's a nightmarish view of an utopia where humans are genetically created.

Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card - totally blew away the sci-fi genre. It's a militaristic view of a world where kids go to war in spaceships.

[Rafael Domination]

You so get a thanks point for this, Scotty. :D

[Naideana]

These are totally and completely awesome ScottyMcGee!!!!! I am sooooooooooooo giving you a thank you point! You obviously put a ton of work into them and it shows! They were funny and dead useful at the very same time!

You nailed the fantasy cliches perfectly! You listed every single reason why I hate that gene!! I get sooooooooo sick of the teen heros who join up with the elves to save the princess from the evil king who's trying to take over the world just for the heck of it. (no offence to people who write stories like that. I swear it's only me being picky and it can be cool if done the right way too!)

Now I might actually try writing some fantasy just to see where it takes me! And I shall of course be using your trusty guide every step of the way! ^_^

Thanks again!!

-N.

[ScottyMcGee]

Wow.



I totally forgot that I wrote this.



I think I'll do some more for other genres. :D :D :D

[Naideana]

That would be uber wicked! (yes, I just said wicked.) I shall await them with baited breath! :D

[Keith]

First of all some of your attacks only apply to books of the past and obviously you have't broke into the new age of sci-fi that is taking the world by storm. Also some of your attacks are also outdated, weak, and bias. When you write a piece like that you have to make sure you stay as neutral as possible instead of applying your own personal opinions to the subject. It makes others doubt your creditabilty and threatens your reputaton as a highly intelligent and gifted writer.

[sXe_Jinxeh]

^ I don't think this is meant to be a professional analogy. I think this is just Scotty having some fun and making everybody laugh. It's not like he's outright say he's right, that everyone who does any of these things are wrong, and that everyone who does sucks. Let it go, man.

[Midnight_Moon]

Say I read them. I am not as excited about them as everyone else it seems but I guess there is one in everyone crowd.

It was interesting to see that of all the books that I have read, I have see your, as you say, "Cliche Elements". I don't believe that a book can go with out at least one cliche unless it is a classic. For example; everyone thinks, oh the "Romeo and Juliet" thing is sooooo cliche. But it wasn't cliche when Shakespeare wrote it.

I believe with what stories have been written today, cliches are very hard to avoid, even with your "Remedies for Cliches".

So, that's my opinion.

[Rouge]

Speaking of cliches, there was this guy, who's going to A&M and who's at least 19, in my college English class this morning who was doing a presentation over one of the chapters and he pronouned cliche as "cl-itch."

I had to hold in my laughter. :laugh: I couldn't suppress a smile. :)

[ScottyMcGee]

^ I don't think this is meant to be a professional analogy. I think this is just Scotty having some fun and making everybody laugh.


Um, yeah, what he said.

HAHAHA, professional.

I'm anything but professional.

I'm just pointing out things I've seen and people to discuss.

[Zaphkiel]

Scotty is a very skilled analyst when it comes to things like this. That's why I respect his critiques to the highest degree. I'll be sure to be careful when writing future works.

[ScottyMcGee]

I think I'm going to do a sort of "animated" version of this guide with me narrating and post it on youtube.

:D :D :D

[Alex]

if you do so then make sure in the sci-fi section you put in Slaughterhouse V, the best Sci-Fi book ever done ((until the last fucking 50 pages... *grumbles*))

[Crazy Shyness]

There's like a giant list of these on Wikipedia. Just search for 'Evil Overlord List' and go to the second Notes link.

[Uriel]

This thread is very informative!:D

[dj4ever]

So very completely true and soo helpful.

I love life of pi by the way :)

[Gabby]

Good guide ;) Funny thing is that I can't stop writing first person fantasies!

[Eilidh]

This is amazing.
I try to avoid all cliches :P.

[sXe_Jinxeh]

Ftr, Scotty, I've totally got these saved on my flashdrive in my resources folder.

:D

Just wanted to let you know.

Um, yeah, what he said.

and ps . . . I'm a girly, xD

[ScottyMcGee]

Uh, wow, really?

Cool.


You know, I may do a live-action version of this guide on my show. Post it on youtube. It'd be fun.

[Ninjatrone]

The original post brings "The Hero With A Thousand Faces" to mind.
That probably explains all of your archetype characters ressembling the cast of Star Wars...

[xcomplex]

LOVE your cliché description. I pretty much used to like Eragon until I was like hey Im not getting the last book cause I know what’s going to happen. Like its so predictable that I don't see a reason of wasting another $40.00 on it :) Any who I am a fantasy writer and am SOO glad that my story doesn’t fall into the cliché pattern you described. Firstly my story takes place like 1 million years later, yet it isn't futuristic because in my story after a nuclear war mutants started roaming the planet. In fact different races of mutated humans (which I made up!). So the only real humans are underground, yet they have not much supplies yet so they have to face the horrors. Now not all the mutants are evil, yet my main character is. I’ am not giving away the end but In my local writer circle thing some people cried, at what happened. I was so happy!! Cause that means it's awesome right?? Well not for sure. I guess most said the ending is quite strong yet it wasn't the ending that made them emotional but the way I made them tied to the one character throughout the whole story. Awesome description btw!!:blush:

[jcsk88]

Erm... xcomplex... I don't mean to burst your bubble, but do the titles "X-men", "Heroes", "Resident Evil", "Doom" ... etc ring any bells?

[xcomplex]

Yeah I actually do but seriously, do you even know the plot of my story??

[miss_smiley]

We're just saying that yes, there are clichees in your story too, sweets. Most people (unless you're a very out-of-the-box thinker, or you've been in the circle a while and you've come to think in new and interesting ways) are guilty of them. Lord knows I am - and I've been chipping away at this little block of wood for a while now, slowly attempting to smash the grip of popular culture on my writing.

And usually, it's not a good idea to say "because that means I'm awesome, right???".
There really is no need to brag. And personally, I believe that there is always room for improvement.

BACK TO THE SUBJECT:

Great job, Scotty. I'm taking this all down for my reference folder. ^^ Sooner or later, I'll probably end up quoting you. :P
Any chance of doing one for romance? :P Plenty of clichees there to attack!

Pretty please?

[sXe_Jinxeh]

Yessssh, Scotty, do a romance one. It would make my exponentially happy. :D

[thecollector]

Alright, really? No offense, but are all of you going to ignore the giant elephant in the room? I'm not trying to start arguments here, but let's face facts. Almost every type of story imaginable has been made. What I mean is the basic idea. Many books have been written with conspiracies and spies. In today's world, if you're writing something for a living, most likely it will have a level of cliches. There's nothing you can really do to stop it. It's basically you against the writers before you. What you're forced to do is prove yourself to get respect by filling your story with as much originality as you can. For instance, when Anne Rice was writing her vampire chronicles, she was facing the lore everyone thinks of them as. Using a creative mind (a drunk mind, but don't try that...), she wrote many bestsellers because of how original they were. All you have to do to beat a cliche is to take your idea and make it special... make it yours. In the end, what others think of think of it as "bad or good" doesn't matter. As long as you made it special, you did your job as a writer.

Again, I apologize if that is offensive to anyone. I'm not trying to be rude.

Back to the main attraction:

I agree with those traits. I think mixing it up is good for a writer. It keeps the reader interested enough to want more like the book is their drug.

[Ninjatrone]

LOVE your cliché description. I pretty much used to like Eragon until I was like hey Im not getting the last book cause I know what’s going to happen. Like its so predictable that I don't see a reason of wasting another $40.00 on it :) Any who I am a fantasy writer and am SOO glad that my story doesn’t fall into the cliché pattern you described. Firstly my story takes place like 1 million years later, yet it isn't futuristic because in my story after a nuclear war mutants started roaming the planet. In fact different races of mutated humans (which I made up!). So the only real humans are underground, yet they have not much supplies yet so they have to face the horrors. Now not all the mutants are evil, yet my main character is. I’ am not giving away the end but In my local writer circle thing some people cried, at what happened. I was so happy!! Cause that means it's awesome right?? Well not for sure. I guess most said the ending is quite strong yet it wasn't the ending that made them emotional but the way I made them tied to the one character throughout the whole story. Awesome description btw!!:blush:
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/07/thumbs-up.jpg

I'll let you make the connection on your own.
The only difference I noticed was that you set your story millions of years in the future, rather than in the 1950's.

[xcomplex]

dude you guys don't know my story. I have read the description of matrix and all and they arn't like mine. well you can think what you like, of course there could be a story like mine out there lols but not that i have hear of yet.

[miss_smiley]

Gah! Grammar! Spelling!

*eye twitch*

[jcsk88]

Ninjatrone: Ninja, my guess would have been Bioshock.

xcomplex: My guess might be wrong, but what on earth gave you the idea of the Matrix? Anyway, I believe I've critiqued one of your posts before, so I know you can do better than the chatspeak. And you don't have to be so defensive about your work, or this site won't be any use to you at all. The purpose of putting your manuscript up here is to get feedback, not insist that you're good enough or better than some. By all means, show us the story instead of saying that we don't know it. We'll decide for ourselves then.

[miss_smiley]

And quit spamming up Scotty's thread.
Pretty please?

[Bowie20049]

LOVE your cliché description. I pretty much used to like Eragon until I was like hey Im not getting the last book cause I know what’s going to happen. Like its so predictable that I don't see a reason of wasting another $40.00 on it :) Any who I am a fantasy writer and am SOO glad that my story doesn’t fall into the cliché pattern you described. Firstly my story takes place like 1 million years later, yet it isn't futuristic because in my story after a nuclear war mutants started roaming the planet. In fact different races of mutated humans (which I made up!). So the only real humans are underground, yet they have not much supplies yet so they have to face the horrors. Now not all the mutants are evil, yet my main character is. I’ am not giving away the end but In my local writer circle thing some people cried, at what happened. I was so happy!! Cause that means it's awesome right?? Well not for sure. I guess most said the ending is quite strong yet it wasn't the ending that made them emotional but the way I made them tied to the one character throughout the whole story. Awesome description btw!!:blush:

Fallout 3?

Copy/pasted from the wiki: Fallout 3 takes place in the year 2277, 36 years after the setting of Fallout 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_2) and 200 years after the nuclear war between the United States and China that devastated the game's world in an alternate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_history) post-World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) timeline.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_3#cite_note-9) The game places the player in the role of an inhabitant of Vault 101, a survival shelter designed to protect a small number of humans from the nuclear fallout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fallout). When the player character's father disappears under mysterious circumstances, he or she is forced to escape from the Vault and journey into the ruins of Washington D.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_D.C.) to track him down. Along the way the player is assisted by a number of human survivors and must battle a myriad of enemies that now inhabit the area now known as the "Capital Wasteland". The game has an attribute and combat system typical of an action strategy game but also incorporates elements of first-person shooter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_shooter) and survival horror (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_horror) games.

[xcomplex]

Yikes I know miss smiley I am horrible. (shrugs and laughs)

[xcomplex]

ahh Ive looked at fallout three. Not like my plot either. :D The nuclear stuff is very rarely mentioned in the plot of my novel.

[jcsk88]

I just went on a mini-critiquing binge, and I feel like I've learnt something from reading more than a few cliche plots along the way.

It doesn't really occur to me that something has been overdone UNLESS the way in which it is written makes it so painfully obvious that the idea has been used somewhere before. My conclusion is that it isn't the idea that makes a story sound cliche (as we've already conceded, nearly every idea has been rehashed at least once) - it's the delivery. It's not a matter of what is written, but rather, HOW it is written that makes a difference.

[xcomplex]

was I seriously spamming?? sorry guys I didn't intend to do that lol honest! Anyways that story I cannot post because I have my publishing editor editing it for the press :) Anywho's I didn't mean to offend you miss smiley, I was just kidding. Anyways I still would like to say that I like the cliche description! I know every story will have cliche in it like sentances and all.. thats hard to avoid--yes!

[ScottyMcGee]

The original post brings "The Hero With A Thousand Faces" to mind.
That probably explains all of your archetype characters ressembling the cast of Star Wars...



Yes, I'm quite aware of Campbell's work. He's rather amazing. I bought that book recently becuase I always wanted to. This specific guide was inspired by another book which currently escapes my mind.

And wow, I didn't realize how many people still talk on this thread. How come no icon shows up saying there are new replies?

Complex: watch your grammar. Only use one "?" and one "!" when necessary.

You guys aren't spamming in my book (Technically written by me. In my head.) because I like to sit back and see you guys interpret other stories and your own and etc, etc.

I'm quite aware that real imagination is hard to come by. No doubt cliches are unavoidable; it's all a matter of utilizing archetypes. I see things as cliche when there is no originality or any effort to randomize. I highly suggest rolling the dice when you write. What if this character dies? What if this happens? What if that happens? Etc.

In short, don't think about cliches at first, because then that could lead you directly to them or just make you discouraged. BE HORRIBLE at first. Write terribly. And then look back and ask how you can change it. Then ask all the "what ifs." Of course there are going to be archetypes, so long as they are not always predictable in their actions and their thoughts.


And yes.

I should make a romance version.

Though some cliches I wrote for the fiction part can already be carried onto romance.

[MetallicGryffon]

I absolutely hate cliches, so in my story the character finds out he is important and his dad says "Grab that pen." and the main character says " Does it transform into a weapon?", and right when it looks cliche, the dad says "No, this one just ran out of ink.What do you thinj this is, The Lightning Thief?" So I take cliches then uncliche them, and it makes the story funnier. See what I mean. Tell me your thoughts on my method.

[peepingthesmurf]

I'm actually not sure if you can legally use the name of another book in your book.

[Bowie20049]

'Diary of a Wimpy Kid' used 'The Giving Tree' in their book. So I'm pretty sure it's allowed.

[MetallicGryffon]

I'm actually not sure if you can legally use the name of another book in your book.

I belive it is legal.

[Sofiel]

I've seen authors use the names of other books within their own stories multiple times. I've also seen them quote from other works and from pop culture. It's okay as long as you attribute the quotes, and you do not try to pass them off as your own.

[J.L.A.Montoya]

Every story will be fraught with cliches. There's no such thing as an entirely original idea. Maybe in early human history, yes, but these days your ideas will most definitely be inspired by many different stimuli. Subconcious memories of things also contribute.

Even making the reader believe a cliche is due and then lampshading it is also in itself a cliche. But hey, whatever works! It doesn't make you unoriginal, and if you're good you can make anything work.

[Jaraix]

Actually, TVTropes has a lot of those cliches and their varies stripes and patterns across the various genres. Amusing, and very addictive. It puts the whole business of writing into perspective, when you realize that much has been done before. As said before by several posters, that's how it goes, and it's not worth worrying too much about.

Even within an overused idea, there are many ways to mix it up, and combine or cross it with other ideas or genres. And after all that, I think people take delight in the familiar more often than not, especially when the same thing is made a little different, just to tease the mind. On a deeper level, having characters/plots that resonate with archetypal forms does not necessarily take away from the meaning of a work. The character or story may become more universal/common to all, and in some ways, more true to the human condition.

As for using titles of other works, I remember something about parodies being considered under fair use. And with such a fleeting mention, why not?

[Kiba]

I JUST SPENT THE LAST THREE HOURS ON THAT SITE.

Why can't I escape?!