Childrens rights

[Tex Deadalu]

Childrens' rights. I myself have made the beginnings of many petitions demanding childrens rights. Unfortunatly, my personality type is INTP, who never finish projects. I have finished some, but not even close to a quarter ( I am NOT demonstating child stupidity; we're not stupid. Adults are the same way. I fact, personality traits are more dominant the older you get) . Back to the Point. I think that children should have rights. Being a child myself, this isn't saying much. But I have evadance. So, please, anyone who's read GONE, hold on for a minute. Unlike GONE, all of the adults (15 and over) wouldn't disapear. They would simply have less control. So here's what rights I think minors are entitled to :

Drivers Lisence (If they've passed the test, of course)
Jobs
Their own house
The descisions of their life
The ability to vote
The right to be treated as equal to adults
The right to be under 13 and be allowed to stay somewhere alone (which, by the way is illegal)
The right to owning a bank account
The right to decide academic choices

This is a minor part of the list that I have written. Please, i you disagree, write back, I would like to hear you reasons. If you agree, also right back, I would like to hear your reason to support my idea.

Thank You
Tex

:pirate: First things first, but not necessarily in that order- Dr who:pirate:

[Tex Deadalu]

Please excuse my spelling errors,; I can't spell my way out of a paper bag.

[Spacepirate]

Define child? Age parameters?

I'm pretty sure a 10 year old wouldn't be able to drive.

And to be honest. Most of those things are stupid. What 15 year old would be able to afford a house? What 12 year old would be able to distinguish between the BNP/SNP/Monster Raving Looney Party.

EDIT: And you can't use a fictional book for evidence...

You need to clarify these things further...

[Omal]

The most essential right of a child is the right to have an adult guiding them daily, teaching them about the world. Can you imagine how horrible it is to have a negligent parent, who won't provide a home and shelter for you, who won't provide a lively-hood for you? No child deserves to be forced to take on adult responsibilities. Parents are a blessing.

[Tex Deadalu]

Yes, you're right, a 15 yr old probably wouldn't be able to afford a house and a ten yr old probably wouldn't be able to drive. Forgive, I should've clarrified myself:

If they are able to and (only) if they want to should they be able to have the same rights as adults (Smoking and drinking do not count, and i think that excessive drinking should be illegal. Smoking is completely stupid and shouldn't even exist. This is my opinion). I didn't mean to sound as if the book was my evadance. It's not. AT least, not that particular book. Read those history books you got from highschool. I have. Age parimeters: like, 11 up

Thanks for replying

[Spacepirate]

Yes, you're right, a 15 yr old probably wouldn't be able to afford a house and a ten yr old probably wouldn't be able to drive. Forgive, I should've clarrified myself:

If they are able to and (only) if they want to should they be able to have the same rights as adults (Smoking and drinking do not count, and i think that excessive drinking should be illegal. Smoking is completely stupid and shouldn't even exist. This is my opinion). I didn't mean to sound as if the book was my evadance. It's not. AT least, not that particular book. Read those history books you got from highschool. I have. Age parimeters: like, 11 up

Thanks for replying

So an 11 year old should have the same right to see a stripper?

[Simmi]

This is completely idiotic, no offense. No matter how much I would like to have my own rights, I wouldn't like being out on my own, having to take adult responsibilities when I'm just a kid. Everything happens for a reason, we don't have those rights, for a reason, and if Obama (or, if you're in a different country, your president) decides to give us kids our own rights such as those, then it would happen for a reason. And it better be a damn good reason.

My "life lessons" have all been told to me by an adult, they've experienced life. We, are immature little buggers, you can't spell your way out of a paper bag, most kids can't open a paper bag.

I respect your opinion, but that doesn't mean I can't find it stupid.

[Tex Deadalu]

I can see that this is going nowhere. I quit. I think i'll look at the God or Evelution

[Bowie20049]

There's so many things stupid with this idea.

Adults didn't set age requirements because they want to be oppressive to children; they wanted to make sure children live in the safest environment possible. From the attitudes I have seen from some elementary students, I would definitely not want them to drive or own a house or be able to live alone.

And if you wanted kids to drive that young, might as well make them able to smoke and drink; which, in my opinion, are a lot safer than driving especially at that age.

[Zombified]

Yes, because when I go to a strip club and slip a dollar bill into a busty woman's thong, I want to be sharing the room with a ten year old kid and his Transformers action figure.

[MasterCarlton]

There's a difference between rights and idiocy.

Rights should be the likes of:

The right to a home.
The right to an education.
The right to a secure and safe environment.

What you are listing is some silly Disney-esque fantasy.

[Write]

The most essential right of a child is the right to have an adult guiding them daily, teaching them about the world. Can you imagine how horrible it is to have a negligent parent, who won't provide a home and shelter for you, who won't provide a lively-hood for you? No child deserves to be forced to take on adult responsibilities. Parents are a blessing.
My opinion to that is that children should have a choice

[Write]

I think you people are missing the point, a child should have the right to a job, and a home, because what if an abused child wanted to leave, they would just end up on the streets and starvee to death, but with this we have a choice. This is my opinion

[Bowie20049]

Foster care

[Write]

In 'The Lost Boy' a true story by Dave Pelzer, this boy was always searching for a home, children shouldn't have to go through that

[Bowie20049]

You know we have laws against child labor :\

[ManyIdeas]

Yes, but they don't always work do they? Africa, anybody? We've got people over their enforcing child labour rules, yet they still work. Why? They can't afford to go to school. They don’t have good homes.

I know multiple children that work because their parents can't afford to keep them. I know children who confuse adults because they know things academically important that the adults didn't know.

And because we are entitled to a safe environment, doesn't mean we get it. I lived in fear for years in my own home. So don't say that all children here have a safe home. And being safe denies experience. I chose experience over safety.

Foster Care is not always good. Not all foster parents want to foster you for kind reasons. We have paedophiles you know. That isn't a safe home, you know. But it certainly is real.

But yes, I could be able to drive. I'm tall enough, concentrated enough, and I have good coordination. My twin drives a motorbike better then most grown men. Not all children would be able to, and the buying a home is a little stupid. How? I doubt a child could pay off a mortgage. I would like to respected though. The older generation nags us to get job, problem is there aren't any, and employers won't take on kids because of the economic crisis. So it's really just a spinning top relationship. Won't stop until we realise that each generation has their own problems, and then we run out of ranting gas.

Just my opinion. Respect it even if you don't like it or agree with it.

[Kalculator]

Minors CAN have bank accounts, just saying.

[jsyk]

Caaaaaan I say something? Just because, you know, I'm a child and I have an opinion, even though I'm new?

Not entirely sure what I want to say, but... I think that it really depends on the rights kids should have. Not a lot of people know what they're doing, but it shouldn't be based on age, it should be based on knowledge. Not all kids are the same. That said, one of the rights that I noticed is a big issue is kids' rights to have a choice. People assume that kids are too young to know what they want, but I don't believe that should be for the adults to decide. Like I said, not every kid is the same, so if you're, say, fourteen, and you want a job, you shouldn't be turned down because you're too young and they think you don't know what you're doing, because that should be for the kid to find out, whether or not they can handle it. As it is, human children are the most vulnerable out of all offspring, animal or otherwise, but why do you think that is? Parents protect us so much it's even more of a culture shock that when we do make it out in the world for the first time, we're not prepared.

The one thing I want, however, is to be taken more seriously. Just because we're young doesn't mean we're these expendable, adorable things that know nothing, because we learn, just like everyone else. And you know, I kind of grew up fast, so I never really got that childhood innocence people keep talking about. My stepdad has this thing where he HAS to be right in everything he says, and I'm his favorite person to prove it to because I talk back, and I'm passionate it what I'm saying. So I CAN be right, but he doesn't want to admit it, and I think that, not only does it have something to do with his natural personality, but also because he doesn't want to lose an argument to a teenager.

Adults can get caught up in all of the problems of the world and forget that it's the little things that count the most. I remember my Mom and stepdad fighting, they do it all the time, and me pushing my two baby sisters out of the room because they wouldn't stop shouting cuss words at each other. Sometimes, we see so much better than adults do, and when that sometimes happens, nobody ever listens to us when we're trying to tell them something.

I'm just saying, we're not as frail and precious as people think we are, and I feel like people should take us more seriously. Because we have good opinions and ideas, and because we're so innocent, we might be able to see where adults can get clouded. Sometimes, we can be right, and I wish people would recognize that and not dismiss it because we're so young.

That's my opinion, so, sorry if I stepped out of line.

[Tex Deadalu]

Finally, we have a few people saying something other than "This is stupid and fanatical".

Just so you know, people, that doesn't help. Anyway. When I first started this topic, I was, like, ten. Ten and rather naive. Now, of course, I have realized that what I listed is never gonna happen, so I have a new proposal.

*This is copywritten do not steal*

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. ”

So quotes the preamble, ratified in 1788.

300 years later, we have still not gotten over our 'Human is human, all are equal' debate. For one thing, men are still plainly at an advantage. Or, rather, white adult men. Because children, with all the protection laws and non-abusive parents, and the 'No-Child-Left-Behind' crap, we still have it much, much worse than anyone.

I have noted that previously and presently, Amendment 13 has been ignored in the case of children. Those citizens under the age of 18 (More commonly known as minors or children) have been forced, by their guardians, to work or make decisions because of the preference of their legal parents or guardians.

Moreover, there has been no punishment given to the minors' legal parents or guardians, if the child or minor has been deemed untrustworthy because of criminal record or age. Are you willing to let adults go unpunished because you cannot trust a victim under the age or at the age of 13?

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

When are children allowed the pursuit of happiness? The only current way for a minor to be allowed the pursuit of happiness, or to find their own way, is the unlikely event that they have activated the Emancipation Minors Law, where the child must be at least 14, must have a legal way to make income, and must be given their guardians permission. This entirely defeats the point of the Emancipation Minors Law, for what parent that wishes to control their child's ways and means are going to allow their child to be separated from them and given choices? And what child should be given the right to Emancipate other than those with over controlling parents or guardians?

And if we are talking about the breach in the Declaration, why not mention this;
Where the Declaration states: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.' , we breach it yet again.

When a mother kills her child (or, in a less morbid, less frightening way of saying, an abortion), she is killing someone. A human. A child, for that matter. Where, do tell, does it state in the Declaration of Independence that a mother or father has the right to deny existence to their child? Nowhere, as I believe it tells us: 'They are endowed by their Creator certain unalienable rights...'

So when does the child get to decide whether to die or not?

So, not only are adults able and allowed to decide personal matters for their child, they even get to kill them!

Children seem to be getting this, as depression rates are going up, 'silly teenagers' are beginning to feel the need to kill themselves, or smoke, or inject drugs into their bodies, or cut themselves. This is mostly because of the controlling parents that have been forced upon them.

So is it really the child's fault that they are depressed? Studies show that there is a higher likely-hood of depression is their parents are divorced. So why get married in the first place? Studies show that there is a higher likely-hood of depression if the parents cannot take care of their child or ignores them except to critisize them. SO why have children? Why adopt? No reason. No reason at all. Only greed, really. Only for bragging, really. Only for someone to take out your anger on, really.

Okay, rant over. Thank you for posting, jsyk, this is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. That quite a few adults put up the 'I have more experience that you so shut up' tact. I really hate that. I mean, come on. Who cares that you have more 'experience' being alive than I do? The least you could do is listen!

Kalculator: Yeah, they can, but you know what? Their parents can take out the money! For example. I'm twelve. I can handle money. I don't just go on a shopping spree. But my mom has taken out all the money of my bank account! Every last penny! What's more, she won't put it back in! And it's not like I've been stealing her money or nothing! But the fact that she can take it out and I can't infuriates me! I earned that money! Not like my parents put it in randomly! No! I earned it. Like, jobs. So, no, Kalculator. We don't have control of our bank accounts. Yeah, we have them, but to what end? And what's the use if we can't take out money?

ManyIdeas: Ex-act-ly. You know whats sad? Same here. Flinching when my dad raises his hand. And even worse: I'm used to my parents screaming cuss words at me, calling me extremely demoralizing names, and saying that I was a mistake. Yeah, I learned that one when I was six. "Tex, you was a mistake. We didn't mean for you to be born." Yeah, that's how I like to start my day. And another one, this time my mom telling my dad: "She's gonna grow up to be a drunk druggy, you know, because you keep yellin' at her." No matter what the circumstance, that's not a nice thing to hear. Esp. when you're ten. Just like you and jsyk said:

"And because we are entitled to a safe environment, doesn't mean we get it. I lived in fear for years in my own home. So don't say that all children here have a safe home. And being safe denies experience. I chose experience over safety."

Bowie20049: So? You think that means anything? Because it doesn't. READ ABOVE.

Thanks for posting. We just might be getting somewhere here.

By the way, please refrain from telling us that this is stupid and it wont work. Don't want to hear it. Doesn't help anything.

Thanks, bye.

[jsyk]

Hehe, you're much better at saying it than I am. I know exactly how you feel, because what happens when parents go too far? It's not so much that, "Oh, you'll understand when you get older," because that's not how it is. Maybe I'll turn twenty and everything will all click into place, but somehow I doubt it. And you bring up a good point, something I'd like to point out: you don't have to be hit to be abused. Sometimes words is all you need to be pushed over the edge, and a lot of kids WILL kill themselves because they don't think they're worth anything, because their parents TELL them they're not worth anything. Believe it or not, adults are learning, too, just as much as kids are, so they shouldn't use their power just because they have power.

I have an issue with the authority figures in my life. My dad's a racist jerk (and yes, you can be racist if you're black by saying everybody else is racist because they're NOT black) and my stepdad has this INFURIATING urge to be right all the time. As far as my respect goes, you have to earn it, and if you don't respect me, I don't respect you. That may be wrong in my society or whatever but it feels like the only way I can live without lying through my teeth every day.

[thecollector]

....So here's what rights I think minors are entitled to :

Drivers Lisence (If they've passed the test, of course)
Jobs
Their own house
The descisions of their life
The ability to vote
The right to be treated as equal to adults
The right to be under 13 and be allowed to stay somewhere alone (which, by the way is illegal)
The right to owning a bank account
The right to decide academic choices

This is a minor part of the list that I have written. Please, i you disagree, write back, I would like to hear you reasons. If you agree, also right back, I would like to hear your reason to support my idea.

Thank You
Tex

While this would be a nice daydream, but I think you're missing the main logic here. Most parents start leaving their child home alone for a few hours when they're mature enough to be able to hold down the fort for themselves. At nine, I was allowed to stay home while my mother ran errands. I just watched TV or read. Does this make her a bad mother? No.
Bank account? I have two- one for college and one for my savings. Check with your parents. I think you'll find you have one too.
Academic choices? So, you're saying a 4th grader should be able to have academic choices? Yeah... Am I the only one seeing a problem with that? The average fourth grader hates school and will drop out.
Owning a house? Do you realize how much responsibility that is? Also, in my country, children at sixteen are allowed to be set up with an apartment paid for by the school district if the child is in an abusive home.
Drivers liscense? I think I have one????
Job? Why, yes, that's a given. Everyone has them mostly. Take it upon yourself to get one.
Treated equal to adults? Okay, let's face facts. We're KIDS. We don't know how to run the planet. So, until we do, we respect adults.
Voting? Children are not informed well enough to make that decision. Most of them are alienated by their parents. Some of them, myself and others included, listen to a variety of facts before deciding. However, most? Most are biased. Most are puppets. We don't want puppets voting and turning our countries towars the downhill area now, do we?
Own decisions? To be blunt, don't be a puppet. Live your life how you want to.

Simply put.

[Wolfie]

Look, I'm sorry you had a bad childhood and your parents are evil or whatever, but that doesn't make it okay to give kids that much freedom. I'm a minor myself and there are some times when I wish someone didn't have so much control over me, but you know what? I turned out okay. Why? Because my parents have been on my back, beating my butt--sometimes literally--for me to study, to be good, to learn how not do anything stupid. Despite all the baggage that comes with it, it's a necessary lesson to learn. So what if the parents don't teach that or are assholes and beat their kid? Then social services can beat their asses if they're reported, and the child may or may not reach a better life. It's a tough life, but it's one everyone goes through. Everyone was once a minor. Everyone has to go through it.

Yes, I agree that there are a lot of really bad homes out there. Too many kids don't get a happily ever after, too many have opinions that are not thought of twice. I'm sorry, but letting them go out onto the street to try and make it on their own is idealistic and very not likely to be successful, and it's not going to solve anything but a momentary feeling of triumph. Do you realize how hard it is for an adult to make it out there? You can't assume that all drugs and depression is because of adults either, because a lot of times, that's not the case. You let a little kid, addicted to the drugs his friends introduced to him, temporarily pissed at how hard his life is, out onto the street to make it on his own with no previous experience? Life will just get harder for him. He's not just going to be homeless, jobless, and addicted to drugs; he's going to be about ten times worse than the adults already out there. He's probably going to die a lot quicker, a lot harder, and I would be very surprised if the angsty child didn't go crawling back to his parents in less than a month, no matter how bad they appeared to be.

[jsyk]

Look, I'm sorry you had a bad childhood and your parents are evil or whatever, but that doesn't make it okay to give kids that much freedom. I'm a minor myself and there are some times when I wish someone didn't have so much control over me, but you know what? I turned out okay. Why? Because my parents have been on my back, beating my butt--sometimes literally--for me to study, to be good, to learn how not do anything stupid. Despite all the baggage that comes with it, it's a necessary lesson to learn. So what if the parents don't teach that or are assholes and beat their kid? Then social services can beat their asses if they're reported, and the child may or may not reach a better life. It's a tough life, but it's one everyone goes through. Everyone was once a minor. Everyone has to go through it.

Yes, I agree that there are a lot of really bad homes out there. Too many kids don't get a happily ever after, too many have opinions that are not thought of twice. I'm sorry, but letting them go out onto the street to try and make it on their own is idealistic and very not likely to be successful, and it's not going to solve anything but a momentary feeling of triumph. Do you realize how hard it is for an adult to make it out there? You can't assume that all drugs and depression is because of adults either, because a lot of times, that's not the case. You let a little kid, addicted to the drugs his friends introduced to him, temporarily pissed at how hard his life is, out onto the street to make it on his own with no previous experience? Life will just get harder for him. He's not just going to be homeless, jobless, and addicted to drugs; he's going to be about ten times worse than the adults already out there. He's probably going to die a lot quicker, a lot harder, and I would be very surprised if the angsty child didn't go crawling back to his parents in less than a month, no matter how bad they appeared to be.

I don't know if it's so much as bad environments kids may live in as just adults and general. We don't need to know how to run the world; not yet, anyways. Being a kid is for deciding what to do with our lives, and parents are here to help us, because, like it or not, we're going to be in charge of this world someday. The thing is, parenting is supposed to be a mutual thing. Kids learn from their parents, and parents learn from their kids. There're different ways to teach different kids in different situations, and a book doesn't tell you everything a child is thinking in any given situation.

For me, it's not so much as I want to move out now and make my own choices in life, more like, I'd like a little more freedom to decide what I want to do, and that parents don't take their "I'm older than you and I know best" thing, because, like it's been said, some parents don't know best. What people need to understand is that kids are their own people-- they're just developing. This doesn't mean they're naive and don't know anything, it means they're learning, and parents are teaching. My mom is a good parent. Because of her, I don't drink or date and I still have my virginity, unlike a lot of the kids in my school. However, my stepdad, like I said, has the urge to be right all the time, even when he's wrong. Once, I tried to say that I had my opinion and he had his in an argument, and he wouldn't let it go because he had to prove when I was wrong, when really, it's an opinion, and you can't be wrong in an opinion.

So, am I ready to take the next step and be my own person? Not so much, but, again, parenting's mutual. You can only get respect if you give it, and that's why parents, the good ones, anyways, reward kids when they do something right. It's how you learn.

[Tex Deadalu]

While this would be a nice daydream, but I think you're missing the main logic here. Most parents start leaving their child home alone for a few hours when they're mature enough to be able to hold down the fort for themselves. At nine, I was allowed to stay home while my mother ran errands. I just watched TV or read. Does this make her a bad mother? No.
Bank account? I have two- one for college and one for my savings. Check with your parents. I think you'll find you have one too.
Academic choices? So, you're saying a 4th grader should be able to have academic choices? Yeah... Am I the only one seeing a problem with that? The average fourth grader hates school and will drop out.
Owning a house? Do you realize how much responsibility that is? Also, in my country, children at sixteen are allowed to be set up with an apartment paid for by the school district if the child is in an abusive home.
Drivers liscense? I think I have one????
Job? Why, yes, that's a given. Everyone has them mostly. Take it upon yourself to get one.
Treated equal to adults? Okay, let's face facts. We're KIDS. We don't know how to run the planet. So, until we do, we respect adults.
Voting? Children are not informed well enough to make that decision. Most of them are alienated by their parents. Some of them, myself and others included, listen to a variety of facts before deciding. However, most? Most are biased. Most are puppets. We don't want puppets voting and turning our countries towars the downhill area now, do we?
Own decisions? To be blunt, don't be a puppet. Live your life how you want to.

Simply put.

As I said before, which I suppose some of you might not have read back to page 2, I've realized that this is totally futile and I won't get anywhere talking about it.

Also. This is going toward children in America, and yes I know it says that I live in Europe but please ignore that for the moment. True, wherever you live, thecollector, you might have these rights that you're talking about. Well, not everyone, and certaintly not me. I admit it. I live in the US, and I've got minimal rights.

About the respect adults bit. Okay, so some adults are totally ingenious and deserve to be respected. Not all of them. As a matter of fact, not most of them. Wherever you are, there may be a lot of good adults. Not here in 'The land of the free'.

VOTING: First of all, read above. Now read this: Actually, I think that a lot of kids ARE well informed enough to vote. Like you said, thecollector, and i respect your oppinion, a few of them are puppets. Yeah, and the adults AREN'T? No offense, but I think you're missing something here. And truth be told, America IS downhill. The people who CAN vote aren't getting what they should be entitled to. For instance, just a few presidential terms ago, Bush stole the election. And I'm not gonna go on a long rant about politics right now, because I am not one of the few people in AMerica who understands it. But seriously? It doesn't seem to matter at the moment if anyone is a puppet or not because the rights that were promised are not getting delivered.

DRIVERS LISCENSE: Okay, again, thecollector, wherever you live, sure, you might have one. But you'll notice that in America, or at least California, there has just been a law that was passed a few years back that stated that people under 18 were not allowed to drive or get a drivers liscense unless they were born before or on Jan 1, 1995. There goes driving to work and college now.

And it's not that I don't respect adults, it's not that I'm a biased person who thinks all adults are scum, because I know a few people who I repect greatly, my 6th, 5th, and 2nd grade teacher among them. It's just that I don't want to be treated like I'm an ignorant little toddler who doesn't understand a word you say.

That's all.

Tex

[thecollector]

As I said before, which I suppose some of you might not have read back to page 2, I've realized that this is totally futile and I won't get anywhere talking about it.

Also. This is going toward children in America, and yes I know it says that I live in Europe but please ignore that for the moment. True, wherever you live, thecollector, you might have these rights that you're talking about. Well, not everyone, and certaintly not me. I admit it. I live in the US, and I've got minimal rights.

About the respect adults bit. Okay, so some adults are totally ingenious and deserve to be respected. Not all of them. As a matter of fact, not most of them. Wherever you are, there may be a lot of good adults. Not here in 'The land of the free'.

VOTING: First of all, read above. Now read this: Actually, I think that a lot of kids ARE well informed enough to vote. Like you said, thecollector, and i respect your oppinion, a few of them are puppets. Yeah, and the adults AREN'T? No offense, but I think you're missing something here. And truth be told, America IS downhill. The people who CAN vote aren't getting what they should be entitled to. For instance, just a few presidential terms ago, Bush stole the election. And I'm not gonna go on a long rant about politics right now, because I am not one of the few people in AMerica who understands it. But seriously? It doesn't seem to matter at the moment if anyone is a puppet or not because the rights that were promised are not getting delivered.

DRIVERS LISCENSE: Okay, again, thecollector, wherever you live, sure, you might have one. But you'll notice that in America, or at least California, there has just been a law that was passed a few years back that stated that people under 18 were not allowed to drive or get a drivers liscense unless they were born before or on Jan 1, 1995. There goes driving to work and college now.

And it's not that I don't respect adults, it's not that I'm a biased person who thinks all adults are scum, because I know a few people who I repect greatly, my 6th, 5th, and 2nd grade teacher among them. It's just that I don't want to be treated like I'm an ignorant little toddler who doesn't understand a word you say.

That's all.

Tex

I don't believe I'm missing your points at all. Some of them are arguable, but let's look back at facts:

DRIVING:

http://www.articlesbase.com/law-articles/children-car-accidents-the-alarming-statistics-695796.html

I want you to take a look at that. BECAUSE OF THAT we have laws such as the one in California which protect us from the dangers of the roadways. Driving is not meant to be dangerous, yet it is. "Most new drivers"-(I'm quoting my booklet for getting my permit)-"are not as experienced as older drivers who have been on the roads for years. As a result, they are more accident prone than the average driver." Laws like that are enforced to protect you. Accidents happen faster than you think. Especially on the roadway. Take it from someone who drives; I've been in almost four accidents already. One was very close but luckily I spun the wheel tight and downshifted just right to get the car safely out of the way.


POLITICS:
Okay. If you believe most kids are well informed, why don't you take a poll and ask them where they get their facts? Most will simply report one source. Whether this is their parents or Fox news or CNN or MSNBC, we need to face facts. Voting is a huge responsibility. And whether you like it or not, it's not one you are prepared for until you're 18. Why? Because what you do decides the fate of the country. Pick the right person and the country sky-rockets. Pick the wrong one, and we have another Hitler. As for most adults, yes- some don't vote. Why? Because they don't feel it's their duty. You know it's their duty- their opinion. I know it's their duty as well. Yet, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. As for kids, you can't expect a freshman in highschool to understand the full aftermath of picking someone bad. You just can't. But, if you have a way to filter out the un-worthy of this head start on voting, I'm all ears. And Bush was ELECTED. Simply put. But if you want to argue the integrity of his election, why don't you point that high powered perception at Obama's election? Don't you find it funny that someone who was born in Kenya is running our country? I don't believe Kenya belongs to us, Tex. I could go on and on about the interesting facts I've collected throughout that election, but that would kill the purpose of this thread.

As for respecting adults, I live in the USA as well. And your perception is incorrect. Not MOST adults are unworthy of respect. That's a lie. I don't know if the California sun has gotten to some of the adults out in Cali, but here in Pennsylvania, we're taught in the backwoods that a child is a child. Just that. It is LEARNING. You don't know everything. I admit; I don't know everything. I'm a human being who's in highschool trying to make it honest- not a walking, talking encyclopedia. I can't predict the future by gazing into the crystal ball. Yet, I'm taught that children learn by observivng the behavior of their elder generations. If you don't believe me, I'll quote my Home Ec teacher. "Babies learn partly by watching their parents. This also goes into older development too. You may think you're a mature person who doesn't need their parents, but you do."- Sue Johnson of W***** A***** Highschool, Bachelors in Home Economics (which covers child development).

You want to talk about rights? Fine; let's discuss OUR RIGHTS. Because I do live in the United States of America. So, why don't we discuss our rights? Like- the right to bare arms? Or what about the rights of gay civil unions? I hope you know there are more pressing rights than those of children. Children are taken care of. CHILDREN are PROTECTED. Granted, I am the product of an abusive household and a twisted-way beyond fucked up family, but I am aware of the rights. I read the constitution for a grade in history. Children are protected; there are child labor laws. There are domestic violence laws. There are child seatbelt laws. There are driving laws and restrictions. There are laws for teacher protocol should a child be in trouble. I could go on and on. Children's rights are fine.

So, I leave you with a family saying: "If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it."

Will

[Bowie20049]

*is offended that California is getting a ton of heat.

[thecollector]

*is offended that California is getting a ton of heat.

Sorry, Bowie, but it's just an example. There are plenty of states that have debatable laws.

[Bilbo]

I would definitely go with Will here.

Children, such as myself, may think that they're "old" enough, and "mature" enough, or whatever it is that you're saying, but that's because we're inexperienced, ignorant, un-tested children.

Okay, so maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but you get my point. How much do you REALLY know about politics, voting, etc? How much do you understand? And is that small amount of understanding enough to equip you with the ability to make good decisions when voting? Of course not.

Parents are here for a reason. Kids have parents so that they don't do stupid things, like drink (copious amounts of alcohol), drive (very unsafely), or steal (things that aren't yours).

And that's my opinion (that's a fact :P ) , so... Uh huh. ;)

[Peppermental]

I drink copious amounts of gasoline,


BECAUSE I SPIT HOT FIRE

[Shaddix]

I believe children should have more rights then they have now.
Granted, I think there are certain restrictions that are nessecary for children to have.
A 12 year old certainly cannot drive, but maybe that 12 year old has the capability to make some financial, educational, and medical choices.
I'm kind of wishy washy on this.

[Rage]

The world should adopt a little Spartan culture, and have some old wrinkly judgemental bastard have a ganders at new born children, fresh from the womb. If he thinks they're alright he'll hand them back to their parents, if he thinks they're shite he'll throw them off a fucking cliff, as you do. :sarcasm:

[lostbookworm]

The world should adopt a little Spartan culture, and have some old wrinkly judgemental bastard have a ganders at new born children, fresh from the womb. If he thinks they're alright he'll hand them back to their parents, if he thinks they're shite he'll throw them off a fucking cliff, as you do. :sarcasm:

Rage, this may be the most single brilliant idea ever! Let's try it out. You get the old man, I'll get the cliff and babies. :D

[Anira]

One word: eugenics.

[lalodragon]

Apologies for lowercase letter which should be capital. The computer (or the website) is undoing them randomly.
childrens' rights. I myself have made the beginnings of many petitions demanding childrens rights. Unfortunatly, my personality type is intp, who never finish projects. I have finished some, but not even close to a quarter ( i am not demonstating child stupidity; we're not stupid. Adults are the same way. I fact, personality traits are more dominant the older you get) . Back to the point. I think that children should have rights. Being a child myself, this isn't saying much. But i have evadance. So, please, anyone who's read gone, hold on for a minute. Unlike gone, all of the adults (15 and over) wouldn't disapear. They would simply have less control. i've never read that. Even if i had, you can't use a fictional book to dictate real life. so here's what rights i think minors are entitled to :

Drivers lisence (if they've passed the test, of course) for children? I'm assuming you mean 'minors', but really? The youngest it would be plausible is 13. When my friends get their permits, their driving still sucks-- even though they've known how to drive since they were 12. They think it's impossible to get your permit at 15 unless you've known how to drive for two years at least; if they got it at 13, they wouldn't have that experience, and they would wreck as soon as they got on main roads. (without a permit, they can't go on main roads.) studies have shown that raising the driving age one year lessens wrecks. Lowering it is idiotic.
jobs in my state a minor can get a real job at 14. At 16 they can do anything an adult can. At nearly any age, you can babysit, mow lawns, etc. For safety reasons, you really can't improve on that without starting a sweatshop.
their own house how many kids can afford or handle their own house? At 15, maybe, but it's not an ideal situation. Being alone leads to all kinds of troubles-- unsupervised parties, underage drinking, etc.
the descisions of their life as in?
the ability to vote it would be nice to have the voting age at 16, but you've got to realize that teenagers don't always have the best judgement.
the right to be treated as equal to adults In what way? In everything? That won't work.
the right to be under 13 and be allowed to stay somewhere alone (which, by the way is illegal) You're kidding, right? At 12, it's a big thing to be on an airplane alone. Staying alone has a myriad of troubles. But this isn't illegal, at least not in my state; it's a common misconception that it is. There isn't any national law. Your state may have one.
the right to owning a bank account We already have this right. If you have an id, you can get a bank account; you can get an id at the sheriff's office if you have your birth certificate (and probably you ss number; i don't know).
the right to decide academic choices What do you mean? Do you mean, in being able to go to college without a parent's signature; or do you mean, in being able to drop out of school? Because the first would be nice, but the second is stupid. Free and compulsory education is the foundation point of most social philosophies.



this is a minor part of the list that i have written. Please, i you disagree, write back, i would like to hear you reasons. If you agree, also right back, i would like to hear your reason to support my idea.

Thank you
tex

These aren't rights, per se, they're privileges. If you earn them, that's one thing; but wanting them to be given to you is immature. Not all adults can make their life decisions. You can be sure that not all adults are equal, so looking to be equal with all adults is a confused idea.
Rights for children are the right to an education, the right to a home, the right to proper nourishment and heath care. I'm all for those. But those are also the rights for adults. Neither group gets them consistently.
And then, it depends on the majority level of the child, doesn't it?