The true meaning of Christmas

[Eve]

What is the true meaning of Christmas? People say it's the joy of giving but I thought differently.

[Tncowgirl]

I know alot of people are going to kill me for this one. But it is the day that christian's use for Christ's birthday. We can't say for sure that is the day that he was born but that is what we think and use for it.

[Me_Lia]

I know alot of people are going to kill me for this one. But it is the day that christian's use for Christ's birthday. We can't say for sure that is the day that he was born but that is what we think and use for it.

I agree. :) I mean, what else?

[GeorgeMichael]

Well, there's also the happiness and joy that Christmas brings, the family gatherings, the smile on children's faces. That goes along with the myth of suicide rates going up (they actually go down) during this time, depression peeks alongside the happiness, but the true meaning I think, beside the obvious Jesus' birthday thing, is just the glorious feeling that it spreads around the world each year :)

[Rafael Domination]

Ah...they've listed the original meaning...

For the Christians: Christmas symbolizes new hope: a Saviour born to literally take God and Man, and bring them back together while paying for the price of the sin himself, giving humanity a chance to escape condemnation, that, once taken, will never be removed.

For everyone else: it symbolizes joy, peace, and a time of giving. It's a time the family can enjoy together. It's also the time for the world to set aside differences and unite as one...until boxing day, at least! :D

[Eve]

True, very true. But who started the word that Christmas is the joy of giving?

[Shaun]

Umm, actually Christmas has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity except that Christians, while destroying the Pagan's for being different some hundreds of years ago, though that some of the Pagan holidays were really cool and stole them, changed random things around, and made up some stories. Jesus wasn't born on the 25th of December. That's actually a myth, but everyone just thinks it does because it's hand-fed to you. The Church simply wanted to offer an alternative holiday to the Pagan festivals around that time to help drive out the Pagan belief system from the minds of the people. It's amazing what you learn about organized religion...

So really, if we want to know the true meaning of Christmas is we have to look at the Pagan's.

But, to all of us it either symbolizes a birthday that happened at some other point in time or it represents a time to get with your family, exchange gifts, and have 'family time', which is supposed to be a good thing. Or it's both. Santa figures into either scenario though.

[Rafael Domination]

While you're right about the exact date being wrong, I'd watch the words 'stole' and 'Pagan' and the ever so general term 'Christian', because unless you can obtain a plausible article, that argument is merely just a personal opinon to be directed at the so called 'christians' back then, and not the actual people who coined the word Christmas from Christ and Mass. We celebrate it as a birthday that did happen at one point in time, but to give it root in Pagan orgins is more or less an uncalled-for insult.

[Eve]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/abr0482l.jpg

I suppose the shop holders started this whole thing about Christmas and giving.

[GeorgeMichael]

Yep, it's all commercialism as told wonderfully in A Charlie Brown Christmas :) One of the greatest christas movies around that truly shows us the meaning of Christmas :)

[Shaun]

While you're right about the exact date being wrong, I'd watch the words 'stole' and 'Pagan' and the ever so general term 'Christian', because unless you can obtain a plausible article, that argument is merely just a personal opinon to be directed at the so called 'christians' back then, and not the actual people who coined the word Christmas from Christ and Mass. We celebrate it as a birthday that did happen at one point in time, but to give it root in Pagan orgins is more or less an uncalled-for insult.

Umm, well if it's an insult, then that's not my problem. It still is a pagan holiday that the Christian Church stole in order to stamp out the Pagans in a less violent manner, although they were rounding up and killing pagans for being heretics all the time anyway. The pagans had a good holiday, the Christian Church wanted the holiday. That's a fact, not a lie. Here are some links:
http://de.essortment.com/christmaspagan_rece.htm
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christmas.html
http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/1999/december6/9te085.html
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract3.html
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/471094/is_christmas_a_pagan_holiday_the_debate.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/for_christmas/_new_year/pagan_christmas/37276.stm


I think that is enough for the time being. The holiday itself has roots in paganism, which I don't see necessarily as an insult at all. Pagans aren't Satan worshipers as people believe. But the Church did create the holiday for a semi-evil purpose.

[Rafael Domination]

Even the first article you posted made me laugh.

Gluttonous eating, drinking, blablabla? If that's what you think we too Christmas as then you've got the wrong sect. I don't know about what screwed up 'christians' you met did for christmas, and what 'Church' you talking about - well, actually I have an idea, but again, it would be idiotic to compare my sect to it - but when ever Christmas rolls around, we celebrate it with innocent joy, hymns and prayer. Giftgiving and the potluck are only additions made by the church family for the spirit of the occasion.

Those articles are just a desperate attempt at comparing two festvals with eac other. For all you care, Ramadan could have just been modelled after Esther's fasting in Babylon. There's no historical basis for it at all.

[Shaun]

Even the first article you posted made me laugh.

Gluttonous eating, drinking, blablabla? If that's what you think we too Christmas as then you've got the wrong sect. I don't know about what screwed up 'christians' you met did for christmas, and what 'Church' you talking about - well, actually I have an idea, but again, it would be idiotic to compare my sect to it - but when ever Christmas rolls around, we celebrate it with innocent joy, hymns and prayer. Giftgiving and the potluck are only additions made by the church family for the spirit of the occasion.

Those articles are just a desperate attempt at comparing two festvals with eac other. For all you care, Ramadan could have just been modelled after Esther's fasting in Babylon. There's no historical basis for it at all.

If you read the articles you would realize that this was only around 300 years after Jesus was born. Meaning, your sect didn't exist then. It was just Christianity as a whole.
This has nothing to say about how Christmas is treated today, this is simply a statement on its history.
They're not a desperate attempt, they are a historical representation of how Christmas came to be. There is historical basis, if you'd pay attention and look into Roman history. But you haven't, obviously, and you're just denying the history of your religion. That's ignorance and lunacy.
And this has nothing to do with my dislike for organized religion either, this simply has to do with the history of organized religion, which you and people like you want to ignore and forget, when you can't. I celebrate Christmas, and I like the holiday, I just recognize that its history isn't fluffy puppies and lovey dovey stuff.

Read the articles...because it's obvious you haven't.

[Imelda]

Raf, it's common knowledge that early Christians wiped out many of the pagan holidays by replacing them with their own. Everyone (including most Christians) knows that Christmas is not the day of Jesus' birth at all, but that it was placed in a convenient part of the year (it's cold, miserable, there's nothing else to do in terms of farming or whatever, and it's good to have a festival to cheer it up) which was previously occupied by a pagan holiday. It's common knowledge, you can't refute that. And it's the same with Easter and Halloween. They wiped out the midsummer celebrations full-stop by being miserable workaholics ... just check the lists of historical/pagan celebrations and it's easy to see.

I don't really blame the church for doing it--they slipped a new religion into the everyday lives of people, and replacing one holiday with another is a really effective way of doing it.

[Rafael Domination]

@ Shaun

Maybe if you didn't lace it with so much hate and malice, they'd be easier to read :)

Besides, by sect DID NOT formally exist until the 1600's or so because the Roman Catholic Church was still too powerful, and would have wiped us out if they knew where we gathered, We had hid in secrecy until we had enough leeway to breath and formally declared the Baptist sect in play.

And if the religion you associate me with is that which you say it is, then I will deny it as mine, because it is stupid and we prefer not to be grouped to such a Church - which is why we broke off it in the first place.

@ Imelda

How quaint. Two versus one and you still can't convince me, the first reasons of which is beacause I KNOW christmas isn't the real date of Christ's birth, and it was placed there by a more poweful church. We celebrate it for its meaning, and we celebrate it on that date because its too much of a bother to go looking for the real one, etc. It's its esscence I defend, not the actual holiday itself.

[Shaun]

@ Shaun

Maybe if you didn't lace it with so much hate and malice, they'd be easier to read :)

Besides, by sect DID NOT formally exist until the 1600's or so because the Roman Catholic Church was still too powerful, and would have wiped us out if they knew where we gathered, We had hid in secrecy until we had enough leeway to breath and formally declared the Baptist sect in play.

And if the religion you associate me with is that which you say it is, then I will deny it as mine, because it is stupid and we prefer not to be grouped to such a Church - which is why we broke off it in the first place.

@ Imelda

How quaint. Two versus one and you still can't convince me, the first reasons of which is beacause I KNOW christmas isn't the real date of Christ's birth, and it was placed there by a more poweful church. We celebrate it for its meaning, and we celebrate it on that date because its too much of a bother to go looking for the real one, etc. It's its esscence I defend, not the actual holiday itself.

We don't have to convince you of anything Raf. Historical evidence does and if you want to ignore that, then that's your choice. It's still there, and you're still wrong. End of story.
On the subject of the origins of your sect not being part of your church, that's ignorance. That's the same as saying that just because the White race isn't going around rounding up black people anymore means we don't have to answer to the fact that we used to and that we, as a race, did terrible things. If you want to have credibility, you have to accept that your religious history is violent, bloody, and corrupt. It doesn't matter if your sect broke off, it is still the same religion. There isn't really any major fundamental difference between the different Christian sects. They all worship the same thing and, dispensing with newer sects, have done horrible things.

[Imelda]

If you know it wasn't the actual date of Jesus' birth, then why's it so hard to believe it replaced a pagan holiday? :confused: Research a bit and you'll find there's plenty of evidence for it.

[Rafael Domination]

I won't be silenced, Shaun :)

And you're not any better by still saying 'you're wrong, Raf, and that's that', cuz' can say the same. I believe now you're starting to feel what its like to try and convince someone that they're wrong and still can't do anything. That's what we true christians have to deal with nowadays: how to make someone believe without giving up on them or shoving it down their throats. Historical evidence has got nothing on me.


the subject of the origins of your sect not being part of your church, that's ignorance. That's the same as saying that just because the White race isn't going around rounding up black people anymore means we don't have to answer to the fact that we used to and that we, as a race, did terrible things


No, but its like saying the Filipino people went around killing blacks. It's stupid because its too general. Maybe I can accuse you of being unsuccesful because you don't study jard enough, because thats what all 'unsuccessful' people are guilty of.

If you want to have credibility, you have to accept that your religious history is violent, bloody, and corrupt. It doesn't matter if your sect broke off, it is still the same religion. There isn't really any major fundamental difference between the different Christian sects. They all worship the same thing and, dispensing with newer sects, have done horrible things.

General, too general. I accept that the early Catholic church had a violent past. I accept that Christians arent as perfect as they are. We lie, we cheat, we are violent, we sin, and Jesus told us to admit that, or we'll stay idiots. But me sect refuses to be responisble for the blood of ao many people. Try not to shove that info down my throat, or you'll wind up just like the people you abhor.

They all worship the same thing and, dispensing with newer sects, have done horrible things.

Invalid argument. Think of this. You're grandma was an axe murderer, and her favorite food was porridge, her favorite hobby was sewing, and her favorite animal was a dog. Now, let's pretend that your favorite food is porridge, hobby: sewing, animal: dog. I beleive that makes you an eighty-year-old pshyco woman with a daughter and a grandson, right?

Wrong. You like the 'same' things, but you are two completely different people...unless of course I meet you and it turns out otherwise :tongue:

My, how we've strayed from the topic. I believe it was 'The true meaning of Christmas?' and not 'Pagan Holiday, or Season of Joy?'



@ Imelda

The holdiay imposed by the early catholic church may have been a pagan holiday. The one we've adopted is based soely on the idea of Jesus' birth and what that means for us...

[Imelda]

When did we say Christmas was a pagan holiday? It REPLACED a pagan holiday. In which they ate well and enjoyed time with family. They removed any other traces of the paganess from it, because they wanted rid of paganism ...

[Rafael Domination]

Okay...that makes sense...thanks for clearing that up in a locial way...

(my, my, Shaun...your girlfriend does a better job at convincing people than you :tongue:)

[Shaun]

I won't be silenced, Shaun :)

And you're not any better by still saying 'you're wrong, Raf, and that's that', cuz' can say the same. I believe now you're starting to feel what its like to try and convince someone that they're wrong and still can't do anything. That's what we true christians have to deal with nowadays: how to make someone believe without giving up on them or shoving it down their throats. Historical evidence has got nothing on me.

No no, see here's the difference Raf. Historical evidence is irrefutable. The notion of an invisible man ruling over mankind throwing around miracles is refutable because there is no legit evidence to suggest that is real at all. Big big big difference.
If historical evidence has nothing on you then obviously the world is still flat, the sun and the universe still circle the Earth, and women must also be inferior beings that deserve to be owned like cattle by men. Because historical evidence has proven all those facts wrong. When you deny reality you just look like the crazy person talking about super flying poops in his footy PJs.
I don't feel anything like what Christians feel, because I know for a fact that I'm right because I'm quoting something that is irrefutable. Christians, on the other hand, try to cram their religious mumbo jumbo down my throat on a consistent basis and I have no desire to be religious in that sense nor do I believe in the Christian god because such a god is evil, wicked, and far too human.

General, too general. I accept that the early Catholic church had a violent past. I accept that Christians arent as perfect as they are. We lie, we cheat, we are violent, we sin, and Jesus told us to admit that, or we'll stay idiots. But me sect refuses to be responisble for the blood of ao many people. Try not to shove that info down my throat, or you'll wind up just like the people you abhor.

You're not reading me correctly at all here. I'm not saying you are individually responsible for what your religion has done in the past. I'm saying you have to face the fact that your religion has done something and not ignore that violent past. It happened, accept it, get past it, and try to avoid those mistakes. Ignoring it and refusing to acknowledge that people of your faith, in the past, have done terrible things just makes you look like our President, who probably understands as much about politics and history as a gerbil.

Invalid argument. Think of this. You're grandma was an axe murderer, and her favorite food was porridge, her favorite hobby was sewing, and her favorite animal was a dog. Now, let's pretend that your favorite food is porridge, hobby: sewing, animal: dog. I beleive that makes you an eighty-year-old pshyco woman with a daughter and a grandson, right?

This argument makes no sense in context to what I was talking about.

My, how we've strayed from the topic. I believe it was 'The true meaning of Christmas?' and not 'Pagan Holiday, or Season of Joy?'

Yes, that was the point of it, but you're arguing against historical fact. Much of what makes Christmas what it is today is because it took things from other religious celebrations or religious ideologies. So, if we want the true meaning of Christmas, we have to look at the day that it was conceived and the reasons for its conception. The title didn't specify that we had to talk about the meaning today.

[Shaun]

Okay...that makes sense...thanks for clearing that up in a locial way...

(my, my, Shaun...your girlfriend does a better job at convincing people than you :tongue:)

You just believe it because it sounds happy to you. You seem to have this desire to ignore what really happened because it doesn't reflect well on your faith.

The Church wanted to convert the Pagans, that's why they took the holiday. It's easier to convert people than to destroy them. Sadly, it didn't really work, so they destroyed them anyway, mostly. As a result, Christmas became a mishmash of ideas and things that were taken from the Pagans, and from other religions of the time that the Church wanted to get rid of (like the Druids).

The 25th was a Pagan holiday, and the Church took it to serve their own means. That's what the Church used to do: manipulate reality to serve their own purposes. Wait...that's what they still do. Creationism...:rolleyes:

[Imelda]

Okay...that makes sense...thanks for clearing that up in a locial way...

(my, my, Shaun...your girlfriend does a better job at convincing people than you :tongue:)

There's no need to sound surprised. :glare:

[Rafael Domination]

This argument makes no sense in context to what I was talking about.

I think you do.

That's what the Church used to do: manipulate reality to serve their own purposes. Wait...that's what they still do. Creationism...:rolleyes:

Sigh...sulk all you want. Use us as a scapegoat. If what you say is true then the world would have wiped us out a long time ago. We're here, we're not going anywhere, and we've done quite a bit of good in the world no matter how much you deny it in the next post.

Forget it Shaun :rolleyes: You have not, and will never, convince me. Imelda's the only one so far with the logical agrument without any hint religious intolerance or direspectful accusations. I've stated my points to clear up my side with anybody who might read this thread in the future, not to argue with you cuz' thats a hopeless cause.

(BTW...you double-posted...)

[Imelda]

He's an admin, he's allowed to. :P

*Stops spamming and leaves*

[Shaun]

I think you do.

That doesn't make sense either.

Sigh...sulk all you want. Use us as a scapegoat. If what you say is true then the world would have wiped us out a long time ago. We're here, we're not going anywhere, and we've done quite a bit of good in the world no matter how much you deny it in the next post.

I'm not using the 'us' you're talking about as a scapegoat. I don't know why you think that is what I'm doing. I never denied that you've done some good either.

Forget it Shaun :rolleyes: You have not, and will never, convince me. Imelda's the only one so far with the logical agrument without any hint religious intolerance or direspectful accusations. I've stated my points to clear up my side with anybody who might read this thread in the future, not to argue with you cuz' thats a hopeless cause.

(BTW...you double-posted...)

What disrespectful accusations have I made? If they are the truth they aren't disrespectful. You've completely taken everything I've said out of context, ignored all the facts that Imelda and I have given you and played it off that you believed Imelda, when really you believe us both. She's said nothing different than what I have said. I just brought you the facts.
This also has nothing to do with religious intolerance except the fact that your religion, in the past and in the present, has been responsible for fostering religious intolerance on other religions and on people. If we're going to go in that direction we can, but that's not what this argument is about. The argument is about whether or not it's true that Christmas was a response by the Christian Church in the 4th century to the Pagan holiday on the same day, in an effort to convert Pagans, in a nonviolent way, to Christianity. That is a fact. A historical fact.
Whatever it is you think I'm doing here is sadly mistaken. You obviously are not reading my posts with any clarity, but have pigeonholed me as some crazy anti-religious person who just wants to make stuff up to refute your belief system. First off, you can believe whatever you want. That's not my concern. My concern is when your religion is used as a basis for oppression and violence, which it has been. You are, by default, associated with those people so long as you keep silent about what they are doing. Silent people are just as culpable as loud people. Raf, my only problem with you as a religious person is that you seem to ignore historical fact in favor of personal opinion, which is lunacy. That's all. As far as I know you aren't running around enslaving blacks, beating up Jews, and killing gays. I have never suggested you do any of those things. But your distant predecessors did. You have to acknowledge your past so you can move on from it. My past, as a white person, has been filled with hatred, violence, oppression, and genocide. I acknowledge that such a past exists and I am able to know what mistakes not to make again.

And yes, it is a hopeless cause for you to sit there and argue with me about historical facts but go over to Imelda, who is giving you the same exact facts, and say she is right and I am wrong. You can't say one person is right and then say someone else who says the same thing is wrong. It doesn't work. That's where the hopelessness comes in. Read my posts with clear eyes.

[Rafael Domination]

My concern is when your religion is used as a basis for oppression and violence, which it has been.


but have pigeonholed me as some crazy anti-religious person who just wants to make stuff up to refute your belief system

You are, by default, associated with those people so long as you keep silent about what they are doing

YEESH! :eek:

If you've just told me that eariler them all this could have been avoided...I've just been posting to even up my POV, and let any people see both sides of the argument

Sigh...reminds me of TW :rolleyes:

K' then...Merry Christmas...that's all I'll say...:D

[Shaun]

That's what I've been saying though Raf. You just weren't listening!

On a side note, which was also mentioned in previous posts. I'm not an anti-religious person. I'm an anti-organized religion person because every organized religion I've encountered has proven to be hypocritical and oppressive. I got tired of trying to find a place that could be considered a safe, open place. And then I watch the news and see what religious people do to gays and to other people who are different and I got sick of it. I watched it happen in my home town too.
What I believe in is a god that doesn't pay attention, who allows mankind to make their own decisions. God has a universe to run. I think this little puny planet is insignificant to the vastness of the universe...

[Rafael Domination]

(Maybe I should stop typing my novel, surfing the web, doing my homework and debating at the same time...)

[Shaun]

That might help. Oh, and don't forget: I started Shaunism, which allows you to believe whatever you want provided you don't cram your beliefs down other people's throats and don't oppress or kill people for religious reasons. If that isn't religious tolerance I don't know what is :P

[Rafael Domination]

Yeah...that sounds like a lot of religious tolerance there...

Any holidays? :D

[Shaun]

Whatever holidays you want you can have. That's the beauty if my religion. You can be Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, etc. It doesn't matter. So long as you follow the basic rules you can believe anything you want, celebrate anything, etc.

[Imelda]

The RCA doesn't agree with Shaunism. It demands total loyalty from its followers. It is also hijacking Christmas as the holiday of Holy Chocolateyness.

[Nyx]

Whatever holidays you want you can have. That's the beauty if my religion. You can be Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, etc. It doesn't matter. So long as you follow the basic rules you can believe anything you want, celebrate anything, etc.

Then I don't really see the point of joining Shaunism if everything is still going to be the same as when I am Muslim...:P

[Shaun]

Because Shaunism is the only religion that attempts to unite all the religions of man under one banner. No other religion does that.

[Nyx]

Because Shaunism is the only religion that attempts to unite all the religions of man under one banner. No other religion does that.

Actually Islam does attempt to do so. It has all the prophets that other religions believe in, and it doesn't deny other Holy Books such as the Bible.

Also I don't think think that we need one religion to unite, I think if people stopped fighting over which religion was better, we could all live happily ever after:D

[Shaun]

The only way to get them to stop bickering is to unite them under one banner: Shaunism :P. :P

[Nyx]

The only way to get them to stop bickering is to unite them under one banner: Shaunism :P. :P

I don't see how that would stop the bickering. Everyone would probably start to fight about which religion is more important to Shaunism:P

[Shaun]

Aww, but I'd lay all that to rest when I'd say "none of you are more important, you're all equal".

[Nyx]

Aww, but I'd lay all that to rest when I'd say "none of you are more important, you're all equal".

God and prophets tried to say that to....look what happened:P

[Shaun]

Yeah, well evil people can't be a part of Shaunism. You have to be a good person to join up.

[Nyx]

How do you define good? Religion is supposed to guide people, most people who are already leading a good and happy life probably don't need a new religion. The ones who haven't done much good in their lives are the people who need religion!

[Shaun]

Umm, well, there are lots and lots of people who are religious who do terrible terrible things. So being religious doesn't make you a good person by default. We judge good by actions. If two people are Jewish and one guy kicks babies and the other one cuddles them, which do you think is the good person? The cuddler.
And I've done good things in my life and I'm generally speaking an agnostic. I don't need religion to make me do good things. I do good things because it's part of being human :P.

Besides, what religion is supposed to do and what it actually does are two different things.

[Nyx]

Umm, well, there are lots and lots of people who are religious who do terrible terrible things. So being religious doesn't make you a good person by default. We judge good by actions. If two people are Jewish and one guy kicks babies and the other one cuddles them, which do you think is the good person? The cuddler.
And I've done good things in my life and I'm generally speaking an agnostic. I don't need religion to make me do good things. I do good things because it's part of being human :P.

Besides, what religion is supposed to do and what it actually does are two different things.

I don't think you understood what I said, I never said that religious people are always good people! I said people who are already good people don't need a religion...:confused:

[Shaun]

How do you define good? Religion is supposed to guide people, most people who are already leading a good and happy life probably don't need a new religion. The ones who haven't done much good in their lives are the people who need religion!

That's what you said. Maybe I was mistaken in what you meant. :S
I thought you were implying that people who haven't done good need a religion and that good people don't need a NEW religion, implying they don't need Shaunism because they already have a religion. Was that just a wording problem?

[Nyx]

That's what you said. Maybe I was mistaken in what you meant. :S
I thought you were implying that people who haven't done good need a religion and that good people don't need a NEW religion, implying they don't need Shaunism because they already have a religion. Was that just a wording problem?

Ok I guess I worded that wrong:P When I said NEW I meant a religion that is new to the world, as in not an already well known religion.
I meant people that are good don't have any use of Shaunism because they already do all the nice things that people following Shaunism do...-did that make more sense?

Next time I'll word better:D

[Shaun]

But they do have use for Shaunism because it is the only religion that encourages getting everyone together for a giant hug and ignoring the fact that you believe different things. When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter whether you believe in Allah, God, Vishnu, or Bob the Flying Squirrel God, because we're all human beings and we're all going to end up at the same place eventually...we just each believe in a different ending place. But since none of us have been there we can't really say for certain where the next step will lead us. So, we'll end up there together at some point. Better be nice to one another, or at least stop killing and bashing one another while we're here on the planet :).
Hence why I don't understand religious reasons for killing people or the value in having massive wars and having to argue and bicker over other stupid things...

[Eve]

But they do have use for Shaunism because it is the only religion that encourages getting everyone together for a giant hug and ignoring the fact that you believe different things. When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter whether you believe in Allah, God, Vishnu, or Bob the Flying Squirrel God, because we're all human beings and we're all going to end up at the same place eventually...we just each believe in a different ending place. But since none of us have been there we can't really say for certain where the next step will lead us. So, we'll end up there together at some point. Better be nice to one another, or at least stop killing and bashing one another while we're here on the planet :).
Hence why I don't understand religious reasons for killing people or the value in having massive wars and having to argue and bicker over other stupid things...

There was a major war. Over the land of Jerusalem if I'm not wrong. Over the same religious belief though they believe in different people.

[Shaun]

Yes and I still don't understand why people can't just share Jerusalem. If they all follow a certain set of rules, then why can't they share it? We all live on the same damned planet. Share.

[Eve]

You've just hit what I've been thinking for ages. Why must there be so much bloodshed?

[Nyx]

But they do have use for Shaunism because it is the only religion that encourages getting everyone together for a giant hug and ignoring the fact that you believe different things. When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter whether you believe in Allah, God, Vishnu, or Bob the Flying Squirrel God, because we're all human beings and we're all going to end up at the same place eventually...we just each believe in a different ending place. But since none of us have been there we can't really say for certain where the next step will lead us. So, we'll end up there together at some point. Better be nice to one another, or at least stop killing and bashing one another while we're here on the planet :).
Hence why I don't understand religious reasons for killing people or the value in having massive wars and having to argue and bicker over other stupid things...

Ok Shauny, please never use the big hug encouragement thing again, because giant hugs frighten me:P

Also good people would probably join your giant hug but maybe not your religion, because why would they need a religion to do what they're already doing? They can support people to do/be good!

[Imelda]

Oi, don't call him Shauny. :( That's my name for him. :(

[Nyx]

Oi, don't call him Shauny. :( That's my name for him. :(

:blush:Sorry didn't know that....

[Rafael Domination]

Careful, Nyx...Imelda's the jealous type...

I respect that.

[Nyx]

Careful, Nyx...Imelda's the jealous type...

I respect that.

I'm 12...I don't think there's much to be jelous about:P

[Imelda]

Yeah, it was a joke.

Keep the 'Shauny's to yourself in future. :glare:

:p

[Nyx]

Yeah, it was a joke.

Keep the 'Shauny's to yourself in future. :glare:

:p

:rolleyes: ok sure