End of 2009 Complaint and Suggestion Thread!

[Shaun]

Alright, so we're getting to the close of 2009 and I want to hear from our members.

What do you like about YWO? What do you not like? What should be changed or be added? Honest opinions appreciated here. Seriously.

We can't change everything, but knowing what it is that bugs you all, or what you like most, will help us make YWO a better place.

The only rule is this: be civil. This is not the place for personal attacks. Let's keep it friendly and honest. No attacking one another for giving an opinion.

So have at it!

[Rouge]

Likes:
The new critique system
The fact that newb threads don't count for posts since spam is so common
The mag
The slight jump in critiques

Dislikes:
The small amount mod activity (before Bowie I hardly ever saw anyone on.)
People that do not critique but continuously post spam all over the forum, especially in newb threads
People that do not post work, but remain on the forum for no good reason (I don't think there's a fix for this, I'm just sayin'.)
Posts in games section > literature section, but we've tried to fix that before, and it didn't work.
Bad grammar amongst newbs. :3 (again, nothing really to do about that one, I'm just sayin'. Again. :p)

And I think that's it for me.

[Simmi]

Likes:
The new critique system
The fact that newb threads don't count for posts since spam is so common
The mag
The slight jump in critiques

Dislikes:
The small amount mod activity (before Bowie I hardly ever saw anyone on.)
People that do not critique but continuously post spam all over the forum, especially in newb threads
People that do not post work, but remain on the forum for no good reason (I don't think there's a fix for this, I'm just sayin'.)
Posts in games section > literature section, but we've tried to fix that before, and it didn't work.
Bad grammar amongst newbs. :3 (again, nothing really to do about that one, I'm just sayin'. Again. :p)

And I think that's it for me.

Pretty much everything Adri said.
Just to add some things:
Likes:
Groups

Dislikes:
The newbs-- Oh wait, she said that, too.

[Bowie20049]

I could add the critique system in the dislikes. We need a way so that when they don't say the quote button, they shouldn't get points.

Currently, some newbs just copy/paste the stories, and get the full amount of points. >.>

[jcsk88]

I completely agree with Bowie on that. I also think people should get points when they are thanked for a critique. I'm also looking forward to Andy's update on the more stringent points system. As for the newbs that don't spell and can't give useful comments, higher mod activity and temporary lockdown of their unearned posts might encourage them in the right direction without scaring them away. Welcome threads could be closed after one week of "initiation" to limit spam. That's about all I can think of for now.

[Rouge]

I completely agree with Bowie on that. I also think people should get points when they are thanked for a critique. I'm also looking forward to Andy's update on the more stringent points system. As for the newbs that don't spell and can't give useful comments, higher mod activity and temporary lockdown of their unearned posts might encourage them in the right direction without scaring them away. Welcome threads could be closed after one week of "initiation" to limit spam. That's about all I can think of for now.

I really like that idea.

[Mercy]

I completely agree with Bowie on that. I also think people should get points when they are thanked for a critique. I'm also looking forward to Andy's update on the more stringent points system. As for the newbs that don't spell and can't give useful comments, higher mod activity and temporary lockdown of their unearned posts might encourage them in the right direction without scaring them away. Welcome threads could be closed after one week of "initiation" to limit spam. That's about all I can think of for now.
We actually do close/delete their writing threads if we catch them and send them a friendly warning about their critiques. :)

[Zombified]

Well it ain't the end of the year yet but so far here are my thoughts.

Pros
1. Groups-I think this was a fantastic idea and I am very glad that some interesting little groups took off.

2. The Magazine-What other writing forum has their own magazine? Not many. But we do!

3. Critiques-People are getting better and better. Almost every member knows what to do when it comes to critiquing. This is a major plus.

4. Raf's forthcoming animation- I am quite excited.

Cons
1. Low Moderator presence-It seems that 90% of the time, no Moderator or Administrator is online when most members need them. This is my biggest complaint. (This does not include Bowie's new appointment.)

2. Terrible Newbies- Enough said.

3. Members who Spam- You should all be ashamed of yourselves. >=(

Suggestions.
1. Simple enough, mods who are hardly around to do the job they are required to do should be let go. If this were a job, and you hardly showed up to work, what would the boss do?

2. Punish the members who know better than to spam needlessly to make an example of.
If you've been here long enough and you contribute to useless bullshit, you should be reprimanded. Period.

3. Members should be required to critique a piece of literature at LEAST once a month. I can think of one member who doesn't critique ever. Something should be done about this.

Just layin' down my thoughts.

[jcsk88]

3. Members should be required to critique a piece of literature at LEAST once a month. I can think of one member who doesn't critique ever. Something should be done about this.


I stopped short of asking for a minimum crit quota as I thought it might seem a little... coercive? But if it ever gets implemented, I think the site will be better off for it. A writing site shouldn't lose its focus, and that's one way to keep good feedback flowing.

[Nyx]

3. Members should be required to critique a piece of literature at LEAST once a month. I can think of one member who doesn't critique ever. Something should be done about this.

That makes YWO seem like a chore. It doesn't make sense, someone could be on vacation or having a really busy month, I don't think they should be forced to critique.

[Alex]

And, not to sound pompous (which I'm sure I do)... how many people (who haven't already stepped down from the position...) are qualified at this point. I understand you want us to be on, because we haven't (outside of Mercy who is getting completley ripped to shreds with the rest of us despite her excellent work) been doing as much work as we should, but, believe me (at least in regards to my own case), I have in no way forgotten about the site. I still check on a daily (and yes, it is every day, even if only for 15-30 minutes) basis, but haven't been able to spend as much time as I would like on the site as a result of college applications and other more personal issues.

If I felt I was doing a diservice to the site by remaining a mod, even during this lull of pseudo-inactivity (a subject on which I've already touched on with Shaun), then I would graciously step down. If the people feel that they have a better choice or that I haven't necessarilly fulfilled my role as mod as well as I should have then it is their perogative to approach Shaun. I'll finish by throwing out the following caveat: considering that second half of senior year in high school is (generally) much more laid-back, I'm assuming I will have more time to spend here. If I find that even then I'm unable to participate in a more active manner at that point then I will gladly step down of my own accord.

Also, what really ever happens so drastic that a mod needs to be present at the moment of the occurrence to deal with it? In general I'd say at least one of us is on, and, while I can't vouch for the other mods/administrators, I know that I haven't gotten any specific requests to deal with a thread in what has quite literally been months. Please, flood my inbox and I promise every issue you have will be adressed in a timely and efficient manner! Maybe it is because our(my) presence, when it actually occurs, is still perceived as very detached from the community, the newer members are more uncomfortable approaching me. I will say that this was an issue that we had when I was first selected to be a mod, and it was looked over then, and I fail to see a difference from then and now.

Again, I don't mean to sound pompous or elitist, but this is a game of tug-and-war, everyone here knows that if a mod is contacted with a bad thread/poster it will be taken care of. I don't think it is necessarilly fair to leave things that seem so blatantly egregious to the more active members unmentioned to the mods (even in passing) and then you still expect us to take care of it in the fashion which would suit you. Also, I'd like to say one more time, please distance Mercy from the conversation because, while even she is not directly infused into the site's culture, she does a good majority of the modding that does go on, which I think many would be surprised at how extensive it really is at this point.

------End Rant------

[Zombified]

The only rule is this: be civil. This is not the place for personal attacks. Let's keep it friendly and honest. No attacking one another for giving an opinion.



They're just suggestions, people.

Easy.

[Alex]

Taking it easy is not in my nature, Zomb.

Also, you're suggesting something that is completley out of the jurisdiction of Shaun and Andy, so I don't necessarilly see the use here other than to provoke hot-headed mods like myself. Its not like Shaun and Andy can force us to be on more, I posted what I did to try and rationalize the criticisms (they are still that, albeit warranted criticisms), from our prespective. I'm not trying to retalliate against anyone. You can read my post as my own "complaint" against the lack of specific calling out of members or threads for the mods to deal with.

I think it would have been rather clever on my part to leave nothing but a short witty reply in the vain of "1. Members don't seem to want to report issues to mods through pm/visitor message" in response to your post, shame I didn't think of it sooner. Now I just sound like a smartass. I will say that I tried my darndest to keep it diplomatic, and if it came off as an insecure retaliation (which, in fact, it was) I apologize.

[Zombified]

See?

We can't even voice our opinions without being attacked.

They're just suggestions.

Shaun isn't necessarily going to implement each and every one of our ideas, Alex.

[Nyx]

Cons
1. Low Moderator presence-It seems that 90% of the time, no Moderator or Administrator is online when most members need them. This is my biggest complaint. (This does not include Bowie's new appointment.)

First off, I think it's only fair that if you're actually going to name the better mods who have been doing their job then Mercy should be named because she does do a lot of work for the site.


Suggestions.
1. Simple enough, mods who are hardly around to do the job they are required to do should be let go. If this were a job, and you hardly showed up to work, what would the boss do?



I don't think it makes sense to drop any mods if we can't replace them. As Alex said, I too check in everyday just incase there's any major disaster or annoying newb that needs to be taken care of. While this, from yours, and many other members pov is not be enough I think it is still somewhat more efficient than just droppings mods and only having two left.
Anyways, the minute Shaun or a well-known member find someone who would be a good replacement, I'm willing to step down from being a mod.

As for me,
Likes:
The magazine!---obviously I would say this but it's true that it's pretty amazing ;]
Critiquing-- not great yet, but it's picked up
Bowie becoming a mod-- I'm sure we all agree about this one!

Dislikes:
Point System-- I feel like it's still flawed because newbs still manage to post numerous stories/poems without even attempting to do a single crit.

I'll probably think of more and edit this later.

[Rouge]

I like how when the normal members say anything against the mods, they get all riled up. How cute. Like Zomb said, they're our opinions. Besides, he's not the only one that said anything, so there's no point in just 'attacking' him.

Chill out.

[Nyx]

No one's attacking anyone, and Alex already apologized for "if what he said sounded like an attack". We both said we'd step down if that's what's needed but we have the right to share our opinions too.

[Shaun]

Hey. Everyone chill out or I'll have to beat the crap out of someone...

This is a thread for suggestions and opinions about YWO, not members. If someone says something that you don't like, that's just tough. If you want to personally attack Zomb, I'll give you his address and you all can show up at his doorstep.

He makes a very valid point about the mod problem. This is something that, unfortunately, I don't have much control over. I can't get rid of everyone whenever there is a lull, because this is a site for young writers. I can't expect people to be on all the time. Some of us are applying for college; some of us are working on tests; some of us are teaching and taking graduate school courses and have to deal with the crap that comes with it. We're all dealing with other stuff. That said, I understand the complaint, and it's something I am worried about. The best thing I can say is for every member who sees something they don't feel belongs on the site, use that report post button.

That and...shut up Zomb. I'm on YWO every damn day for hours :P. Jerk :P <--I'm teasing...see the :P there?

[appleofmyeye]

Everyone shut up and hug. :hug:

Anywho...

Like:

*The writing section had picked up some. That's always good :).
*I like some of the newbs!
*Bowie is gonna be an awesome mod! I kinda just noticed he was upgraded a minute ago. Hehe.
*The magazine is uber cool. It is sitting on my special shelf so be honored.

Now onto the negative :devil:.

Dislike:

*I know many people like the groups but I dunno. I think the specialized groups work well but the Chatbox... eh. Not every member is part of the Chatbox group so it seems a little exclusive. I'd like it if the Random Games section didn't accumulate posts (most posts are only a couple words anyway) and the Chatbox was in there. Just a thought.

*How Zomb was talking about a critique requirement, I'm not totally onboard with that. Buy, I think that one critique should grant you one post in the Lit. section. The downside is that the critiques should outnumber the threads. Maybe two for one would work better?

*EDIT*

If you want to personally attack Zomb, I'll give you his address and you all can show up at his doorstep.

If you value your life listen to the man. DON'T DO IT.

[Shaun]

Apple, I didn't know you had a copy of SBS! Why didn't you tell me? You're officially on my list of cool people in my sig. /spam

[appleofmyeye]

I just bought mine ^^. I feel like less of a mooch already :P.

And you are officially in my bin of totally awesome people!

Poor Shaun and his Alzheimers :P. /spam

[lango]

Hey! I bought a copy and I'm not on your sig!
Well, about the thread...
First, geez you guys get heated up so fast over anything. I mean, it's a forum for young writers, but we can act mature if we want.

Positive things: Making newcomers have to critique before posting. That stops those random people that posted entire books and then never came back to the site.

Negative things: This isn't exactly something negative, but I agree with most people that mentioned that we have much more posts on the fun sections then on the writing sections... maybe you guys could make normal posts cost 1 critique point or something like that...

[Alex]

I like how when the normal members say anything against the mods, they get all riled up. How cute. Like Zomb said, they're our opinions. Besides, he's not the only one that said anything, so there's no point in just 'attacking' him.

Chill out.

I'll stop after I just clarify these two points.

1) Mod activity is something Shaun cannot control unless he removes us, and there was little suggested by you guys in terms of fixing what is admitted by both sides to be a problem.
2) I keep hearing that the mods aren't acting quick enough, but I haven't been asked to do anything specifically by a member in months, I do what I can otherwise, but I can't read your thoughts and we still need some kind of notice if you feel someone should be watched, warned, etc.

I still fail to see how I attacked anyone in any way. I tried to give context to the mods absence and to credit Mercy with the incredible work that she has done. The only thing I suggested the members do better is give us members who the community as a whole feels are a problem and we'll deal with them. Of course, unless it is a writing post, a long post outside of the debate forum automatically registers as an "attack" (and no, Adri, I'm not just saying this to you). I feel I was fully within my right to defend the mods, particularly Mercy.

[Shaun]

How about everyone shut the hell up about that. Mods and members included. Jesus. Someone brings it up, someone else gets upset, and then other people take shots at the people who got upset...

Chill out and stop responding. Everyone.

Now, give me other crap to work with, please! Stick to the point of the thread...everyone.

[Amour]

Well, I've only been here a few days, but I'll give you some first impressions:

I like the points system for the sole purpose of critiquing, a lot. I've never encountered it before, though, so I can't compare it to anything else.
The seriousness of the site is something else I like - it's not a place to collect reviews, or spam things you've written in less than five minutes.

I don't know if there's a way to see already... but it would be useful to have a 'recent posts' link at the bottom of the forums? It'll be an easier way to see what an active thread is right now, so things aren't posted in and forgotten. I'm not sure if this has been tried, or is around somewhere :P

Hmm... some type of notification when someone's replied to your threads? Or a link that shows all new replies to your threads? I don't know.. this might be around somewhere, too..

[Bowie20049]

Well, I've only been here a few days, but I'll give you some first impressions:

I like the points system for the sole purpose of critiquing, a lot. I've never encountered it before, though, so I can't compare it to anything else.
The seriousness of the site is something else I like - it's not a place to collect reviews, or spam things you've written in less than five minutes.

I don't know if there's a way to see already... but it would be useful to have a 'recent posts' link at the bottom of the forums? It'll be an easier way to see what an active thread is right now, so things aren't posted in and forgotten. I'm not sure if this has been tried, or is around somewhere :P

Hmm... some type of notification when someone's replied to your threads? Or a link that shows all new replies to your threads? I don't know.. this might be around somewhere, too..

http://www.youngwritersonline.net/search.php?searchid=124346 This is the "Today's Posts" Put your cursor on the Forum tab at the top, and it will open this little thingie. Click Today's posts, and it will show you...today's posts

[Amour]

Oooooh. That's exactly what I was looking for! (apparently not very hard :P)
Thanks!

[Rouge]

Well, I've only been here a few days, but I'll give you some first impressions:

I like the points system for the sole purpose of critiquing, a lot. I've never encountered it before, though, so I can't compare it to anything else.
The seriousness of the site is something else I like - it's not a place to collect reviews, or spam things you've written in less than five minutes.

I don't know if there's a way to see already... but it would be useful to have a 'recent posts' link at the bottom of the forums? It'll be an easier way to see what an active thread is right now, so things aren't posted in and forgotten. I'm not sure if this has been tried, or is around somewhere :P

Hmm... some type of notification when someone's replied to your threads? Or a link that shows all new replies to your threads? I don't know.. this might be around somewhere, too..

If you subscribe to a thread, then you'll get the new posts in your User CP. ^^ you can change it in your options to automatically subscribe to any thread you post in, or you can manually subscribe to whatever thread you want to by going to the thread options or whatever at the top of the first post of a thread and click "subscribe to thread."

I think that makes sense. O_o

[Diocletian]

What I don't like about this site is that there isn't enough social drama.

[Shaun]

What do you mean by social drama, Dio? We've had a bit of that in the last 6 months, but it's of the brand that I'm not particularly interested in keeping around here, so do you mean a different kind?

[Alex]

I think he is being sarcastic

[Shaun]

Oh, well there wasn't a :P on the post, so...meh.

[Diocletian]

Aiyaaaaaah, Shaun, I was being sarcastic. Look at the second and third page of this thread for the context...

[MetallicGryffon]

Reply to this please. I posted 25 (this make 26) posts but it's only showing up as 14, please help. :(

[Shaun]

Posts in the word games and what not section do not count towards your post count. You shouldn't be worrying about that anyway...

[Rouge]

Lol, that's totally a legit complaint.