Miracles and Science

[Zaphkiel]

Numerous miracles have appeared all throughout our history, yet some choose not to believe they are miracles. Most think they are simple phenomenums(?) that can be explained by science. So what do you think? Are there miracles you've heard about? And do you think they can be explained? Or maybe there is such a thing as a true miracle, let's get some insight.

[Shadow]

Well, if you gave some examples, I could decide. :rolleyes:

[Shaun]

Everything will eventually be explained by science. However, not everything can be explained by science today. A lot of things have happened in the past that were thought to be miracles, but then we found out that wasn't the case. So, I think all miracles can be explained, or will be explained at some point in time. Science will always advance.

[Shadow]

Shaunism doesn't have miracles in its holy book. :P

BUT, before we get off-track, give me some damn examples!

[Nyx]

I believe in miracles. Although I'm sure everything can someday be explained by science, I believe that not everything is cause by it. :)

[Nyx]

Shaunism doesn't have miracles in its holy book. :P

BUT, before we get off-track, give me some damn examples!

Oh my! Shaunism has no mircales? -scratches off Shaunism in the list of might join religions-

[GeorgeMichael]

ummm...Examples...

A mother sees her two boys trapped under a car and then manages to lift it by herself.

A person is diagnosed with cancer, they open up the body to find that it's gone all of a sudden.

During the holocaust a Jewish man is at gunpoint and praying. As he prays the gun is fired several times but no bullets are fired. The gun seems to malfunction. Another gun is pulled and it malfunctions as well. The man survives.

Are those miracles?


See I believe in miracles and I'm sure several people alone do too but as a whole people just refuse to see it that way. Its either science or coincidence.

[Shadow]

I'd say it was all coincidence. They all seem rather spooky, but it's gotta be a coincidence. Stuff like that's bound to happen in this world, since it's so large and has billions of people in it.

[Rafael Domination]

Science might be able to explain miracles, but that doesn't mean it can make them any less of a miracle...I mean, just because you can explain how someone supernaturally recovers from a 100% lethal wound to the head after someone prays for him/her, it doesn't make it an ordinary occurence.

[Shadow]

Are we talking like divine miracles or the "I hoped really hard she got better and she did" miracles?

[Carraka]

I believe in the science of miracles. Miracles have their own separate branch of science, explained by a combination of thought, belief, quantum mechanics, and me.

Plus, there are miracles in stories. That's good enough. xD

I'm actually being half-serious here. I don't think I can debate about this with logic, though.

[Nyx]

Are we talking like divine miracles or the "I hoped really hard she got better and she did" miracles?

I thought it was about "divine miracles"...

[Zaphkiel]

You know, I heard that in the 9-11 incident, there were some people who leapt out of windows and actually floated to the ground. They claimed that angels of God had gently descened them to the ground. Call me crazy, but I belive them.:)

[Shaun]

ummm...Examples...

[QUOTE]A mother sees her two boys trapped under a car and then manages to lift it by herself.

Called adrenaline, which can be explained by science. The human body is, well, miraculous. Look at people who are PCP. Adrenaline can have much the same effect by making someone immune to common limits. Only adrenaline doesn't get you addicted or make you go nuts.

A person is diagnosed with cancer, they open up the body to find that it's gone all of a sudden.

Again explained by science. The mind is your worst enemy during sickness. If you think that you can beat something, often times, you can. When you doubt yourself, illness gets worse. Science has shown a correlation between mental status and health. Your body has all the means within you to fight anything you might encounter--mostly at least--and if you believe you can fight something, you can. The thing is, we're brought up thinking medicine can help the body. I had cancer, I can attest to the mental aspect having an affect on the body. I was a stage 3. It only goes to stage 4, but stage 3 is extremely bad. I had hodgkin's around my aorta, heart, lungs, trachea, and in my abdomen and neck. I pretty much had any everywhere except my bones. Yet, in six months, which shouldn't have happened normally, I got rid of all that cancer through a combination of chemo, family support, and support from friends (and a mentor actually who was also a survivor who took me out to movies and such). So, it can, and does happen.

During the holocaust a Jewish man is at gunpoint and praying. As he prays the gun is fired several times but no bullets are fired. The gun seems to malfunction. Another gun is pulled and it malfunctions as well. The man survives.

Well, there is a scientific reason for it, but it's never going to be recognized for the science. This will always seem like a miracle.

The thing is, it doesn't matter if science can explain it, it doesn't make it any less important! Just because I can say "well she lifted up the bus because of a motherly extinct that triggered adrenaline and temporary super strength" doesn't make that event any less important to the people involved. Either way, whether science can explain it or not, it still happened and it will be remembered.



Now, as for Shaunism. Shaunism is my own personal religion that anyone can join. All you have to believe to be a Shaunist is: whatever the hell you want. If you believe in miracles, you can be a shaunist. If you believe in Jesus, or God, or Buddha, or whatever, you can be a shaunist. That's it. The only thing is that you can't force other people to believe what you believe, treat people like crap, or use your religion to oppress other people. If you can do that, then you can be a shaunist. Miracles exist if you want them to.

[Shaun]

You know, I heard that in the 9-11 incident, there were some people who leapt out of windows and actually floated to the ground. They claimed that angels of God had gently descened them to the ground. Call me crazy, but I belive them.:)

Didn't happen. But they can claim it all they want. If they lived they didn't jump from very high.

[Zaphkiel]

Didn't happen. But they can claim it all they want. If they lived they didn't jump from very high.

Your statement is a bit vague. Can you explain how they jumped from forty stories without breaking a bone? Once you answer that question, then your statement won't be as vague;)

[Nyx]

Now, as for Shaunism. Shaunism is my own personal religion that anyone can join. All you have to believe to be a Shaunist is: whatever the hell you want. If you believe in miracles, you can be a shaunist. If you believe in Jesus, or God, or Buddha, or whatever, you can be a shaunist. That's it. The only thing is that you can't force other people to believe what you believe, treat people like crap, or use your religion to oppress other people. If you can do that, then you can be a shaunist. Miracles exist if you want them to.

Oh I see, yes I'd forgotten that. -adds Shaunism back to list of might join religions-

[Shaun]

Your statement is a bit vague. Can you explain how they jumped from forty stories without breaking a bone? Once you answer that question, then your statement won't be as vague;)

Well, for one, if such events actually happened as you're saying, they would have been all over the news. The faces of those survivors who magically lived from forty stories without breaking bones would have been planted all over TV. But since that isn't the case, I don't believe for a second that anyone jumped from 40 stories and lived. Especially not without being caught on camera. There were hundreds of people in NYC with cameras, video cameras, cells with cameras, etc. Yet not one of these magic floating people was caught on tape? Not buying it.

[Zaphkiel]

Well, for one, if such events actually happened as you're saying, they would have been all over the news. The faces of those survivors who magically lived from forty stories without breaking bones would have been planted all over TV. But since that isn't the case, I don't believe for a second that anyone jumped from 40 stories and lived. Especially not without being caught on camera. There were hundreds of people in NYC with cameras, video cameras, cells with cameras, etc. Yet not one of these magic floating people was caught on tape? Not buying it.

Well, I guess so. I'll have to brainstorm for another miracle

[Brain]

Just because something can be explained doesn't make it any less of a miracle. It's a miracle I wake up in the morning to a new day, every day, although it can be explained through science. A miracle is whatever you want it to be, and putting a reason in front of it doesn't make it any less of a miracle.

Humans can find an "answer" for everything.

[Shadow]

Now, as for Shaunism. Shaunism is my own personal religion that anyone can join. All you have to believe to be a Shaunist is: whatever the hell you want. If you believe in miracles, you can be a shaunist. If you believe in Jesus, or God, or Buddha, or whatever, you can be a shaunist. That's it. The only thing is that you can't force other people to believe what you believe, treat people like crap, or use your religion to oppress other people. If you can do that, then you can be a shaunist. Miracles exist if you want them to.

Shaunism sounds a lot like Unitarian Universalism. :P

[Nyx]

Just because something can be explained doesn't make it any less of a miracle. It's a miracle I wake up in the morning to a new day, every day, although it can be explained through science. A miracle is whatever you want it to be, and putting a reason in front of it doesn't make it any less of a miracle.

Humans can find an "answer" for everything.

-claps- exactly what I wanted to say except you said it much better!