Writers' Guild of America Strike

[Andy]

Has anyone heard about this? The Writers' Guild of America is going on strike against the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP), which represents all sorts of TV show and movie-making companies. Basically it's over rights to new media (cell phone videos, downloads, DVDs), and that writers should get a bigger share of the profits from them. Anyway, it looks like "Hollyword is going to see a creative drought if this strike doesn't end soon." Some TV chanels have already announced they will be airing less episodes in the coming months than they intended.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/writers-strike

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Writers_Guild_of_America_strike

[Shaun]

I'll gladly take any of their jobs right this minute :P
But that's me. I want to write for a living, so yeah.

[Zuzy]

Yeah.. One part of me says, "Good for them!" the other says, "I like TV!" so I don't want them on strike. But, overall, good for them! With the millions of places you can watch TV shows (online, even) they deserve profits. They'll soon realize that without the writers, they have no money... You can't say that a show is good because of the actors, or the producers, or the directors, in the end it's the writers who captivate us, create the story, and make us want to watch the next episode, because that cliff hanger was so well designed.

Writer's just aren't getting enough credit in that field, and hopefully this will change things.

[GeorgeMichael]

True, any job would be fine but if you did take one then when the strike was over you would be banned from ever being able to join the WGA for not supporting the strike, that's why not many writers are crossing the picket line.

Yes, I was saddened by this, especially since the writer's are asking for something reasonable. My favorite shows (*cough* Grey's Anatomy *cough* don't ask) will most likely end their seasons before or on January leaving only 11 episodes on their new seasons. Shows such as Lost, Heroes, and Desperate Housewives will also be affected. Shows that have premiered this fall such as Private Practice, Pushing Daisies, and Cavemen will also be in trouble since they heavily depend on writers right now in their early stage. shows like Heroes or Grey's already have a huge fan base that will stay with them but the new shows have yet to catch an audience and as a result may end up being tossed away completely.

Unfortunately this means that reality shows like American Idol will get a leg up on the competition since they don't require many writers. They will be playing alongside the reruns of the new shows so most people will watch them to try and catch something new.

So it's a very troublesome time in Hollywood right now, I haven't even begun to discuss how it will affect movies...and I won't do that now because I don't know as much about that topic as much as shows.

[Andy]

I'll be sad if anything happens to Heroes, Stargate Atlantis, or Avatar. Yeah, I'm somewhat torn between sides here as well. I wish the best for writers, but I wish the strike wasn't having this big an effect on good shows like this.

[Shaun]

Well, my argument is as follows:

I don't want to join the WGA anyway, so I could care less if they were pissed at me as long as I had a job. Also, I really could care less about almost all the writers except a select few (Joss Whedon for example) because almost all of them have done nothing I think is deserving of better pay. There are only two shows on TV that I actually like watching and find entertaining enough to keep me on even through commercials (which I hate with a passion). Family Guy and American Dad. That's it. Heroes lost my interested after the first episode. Bionic Woman is Hollywood remake garbage. The Office put me to sleep. All the comedy sitcoms make me yawn. Saturday Night Live has turned into mindless comedy. I hate Scifi Channel because they remake every freaking show and then kill them with poor video quality. So, most of those writers, in my opinion, deserve nothing more, but then my opinion is vastly different than most people who watch TV. I think they should just let Joss Whedon write all the shows...
So, I'd take all their jobs without question because I could care less.

Now, if it were a strike in the publishing world I'd pay more attention...

[Imelda]

Joss Wheadon is ON STRIKE?! OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING!

That's so cruel. :(

[GeorgeMichael]

all I know about Joss Whedon is that he wrote the screenplay for Toy Story :)


Didn't he also write the scripts for Buffy and Angel?

[Shaun]

Joss Whedon is responsible for a lot of stuff including Firefly and Serenity...

Check his IMDB site here (http://imdb.com/name/nm0923736/).

[Zaphkiel]

Hmm...this is a very interesting topic. Well, I think it's good that writers will be able to make more of a living if the strike becomes valid. Even though I myself am a big fan of TV and the "wonders" it brings, I really don't see a problem with them airing less shows for the sake of us writers. Television is a big influence on the minds of little kids these days, so maybe airing less shows could be a blessing in disguise.

And look on the bright side.:D If they do air less tv shows, then there's a good chance that the low-rated, less popular ones will be chosen to get cut off.:P

[Imelda]

BUFFY.

All I learnt about character, I learnt from Joss Wheadon. :) So blame him when I drag my characters through pain ...

And yes, he did do Toy Story. I'm appalled to say. It was terrible.

[Andy]

It could also mean writers' bigger salaries will leave them in better moods, motivate them more, give them more time to write, and result in better TV shows coming out.

[Zaphkiel]

I believe you're absolutely right Andy. I know for a fact that getting a better salary would motivate me more! Like you said Andy, who's to say that those writers being motivated won't come out with better TV shows? You nade a very good point in my opinion.

[Shaun]

The reason why they shouldn't be motivated by money is because good writers write well regardless of how much they are being paid. Should they be paid more? Sure, but the fact that they're bitching about it makes them commercial entities, not writers.

[Crocolyle]

Most writers are commercial entities and write so they get paid. And I'm sure most of us on this site write and try to perfect our craft with the hope that one day we may make some money off of it. The fact is, most (published) writers are commercial entities who write for money. And this has been true for hundreds of years. Shakespeare, Charles Dickens, Thomas Hardy, Edgar Allan Poe, Orson Scott Card, Stephen King, James Fenimore Cooper and a good portion of other writers wrote for money, even though many of them are considered geniuses.

We can talk about ars gratia artis and brush off our monocles like the snobbish intellectuals we are, but while writers love writing, they also love being paid and fairly compensated for their work.

[Shaun]

Edgar Allan Poe was completely broke. He wasn't even recognized until after his death. Charles Dickens wasn't rich either. He had 10 children. And he spent a good portion of his life doing other things than writing since in his day, unless you were funded by the court or a private entity of some sort, you didn't make much of anything on writing. He didn't gain popularity until near the end of his life.
Orson Scott Card and Stephen King are bad examples since both clearly don't write to advance literature. King especially. Card at least wrote some fairly profound novels in his early days.
Writers as commercial entities are not a problem provided their commercial endeavors don't overshadow their artistic responsibility. A lot of these writers are doing just that. They want more money, but a lot of them haven't done anything worthy of it. Why should Hollywood pay more money for the same crap over and over? Joss Whedon is an example of someone who deserved good pay, and he gets it because he's a damn good writer and can weave a damn fine story. There are others that also get paid well and should. But a lot of these idiots on strike aren't good writers. This is why the literature market is so much better. Writers get royalties based on sales (unless you're famous, in which case you get a lot of money up front)...

[Crocolyle]

I don't see what their lack of wealth has to do with the fact that they wrote for money. Charles Dickens and Thomas Hardy, despite the literary significance of his novels, wrote to entertain audiences. Thomas Hardy, arguably compromised his artistic integrity when he wrote an additional chapter in The Return of the Native solely to please his readership. I never said that Stephen King or OSC are trying to advance literature, I merely stated that they write to get paid. You seem to forget that despite their literary acclaim Poe and Dickens did not write fiction (Poetry is irrelevant to this discussion) to advance literature.

Just because you don't think they write anything of literary merit, does not mean that they don't deserve fair payment. Television and film writers, I am sure, enjoy writing, but also deserve fair compensation for their work when it appears on demand, on the internet, on DVD etc.

As a note, you label TV and film writers as idiots who write the same crap over and over, but get offended when people say the same about Paolini. I mean, most movies and TV shows are meant to entertain audiences, not to be profound. And while they do not entertain you, TV and movies are typically very popular and very entertaining. While you are not entertained by Heroes, I am because of the quality and complexity of the stories and the characters. And even though you think the Office is boring, it's one of my favorite comedy series. In my opinion, I think it also has superb characterization.

I've kind of begun to ramble.

[Shaun]

I don't see what their lack of wealth has to do with the fact that they wrote for money. Charles Dickens and Thomas Hardy, despite the literary significance of his novels, wrote to entertain audiences. Thomas Hardy, arguably compromised his artistic integrity when he wrote an additional chapter in The Return of the Native solely to please his readership. I never said that Stephen King or OSC are trying to advance literature, I merely stated that they write to get paid. You seem to forget that despite their literary acclaim Poe and Dickens did not write fiction (Poetry is irrelevant to this discussion) to advance literature.

They certainly didn't write to get paid either (Poe and Dickens). If that were the case then both of them would have found other jobs. Poe, after all, died without hardly a penny to his name and Dickens certainly had very little in his pocket from writing. So, if not for money, what did they write for?

Just because you don't think they write anything of literary merit, does not mean that they don't deserve fair payment. Television and film writers, I am sure, enjoy writing, but also deserve fair compensation for their work when it appears on demand, on the internet, on DVD etc.

Good writers deserve good payment. Bad writers don't. Period. Otherwise we should pay every writer the same and have communist-writing-world everywhere. I just really don't care about their plight because they at least have a writing job, whereas thousands of other people can't even get their foot in the door, and now if they try to take the jobs they'll probably be met with hatred, which would be rather ironic and hypocritical on the WGA's part. Maybe I'm turning my back on them, but so be it. I don't consider the WGA to be a group worth joining. I don't believe in unions. They demand too much of everyone else, in general.


As a note, you label TV and film writers as idiots who write the same crap over and over, but get offended when people say the same about Paolini. I mean, most movies and TV shows are meant to entertain audiences, not to be profound. And while they do not entertain you, TV and movies are typically very popular and very entertaining. While you are not entertained by Heroes, I am because of the quality and complexity of the stories and the characters. And even though you think the Office is boring, it's one of my favorite comedy series. In my opinion, I think it also has superb characterization.

Ah, here's the difference. Words on a page and TV screen time are not of the same quality. What is written for the screen is generally short and concise because the writer has less to do with what is actually directed on to the screen. In novels, the writer has to write down everything. All the little details from what the character is doing, to how the world around him exists. Screen writers have very little impact on that, and often their instructions are ignored when they are present because directors are 'visionaries', or so they say.
So, on the subject of Paolini, if we were to look at literature and get upset at re-used ideas, then we would have to look all the way back to the dawn of literature and discount everything written from the ancient texts on, because it's all a rehash of pre-written ideas. The screen, however, has a different job to do. It can't simply reshow the same idea over and over because there's little room on a screen to be original. Because TV and Movies are intentionally written to entertain and rarely written to be profound, it is constantly under scrutiny by the masses. Horror movies are a wonderful way to look at this concept. When was the last time you saw a truly amazing horror film that didn't follow the common horror trends (things like idiot characters who know there is a murderer going around, yet when they hear a noise they go investigate rather than hightailing it in the opposite direction and calling the cops)? Very, very, very few. Saw, the Ring (which sort of doesn't count), umm...yeah, not very many. Writers can get away with reusing ideas simply because writers can spin those ideas, add character, etc. Television/Movies have little room for that, and therefore, must make higher efforts to be more original. Books also lack the ability to present something visually. Books have to basically 'tell' you what something looks like. TV is the opposite.
The Office is an example of a show that brings to light that Hollywood desperately needs another Seinfeld. Maybe it's good, but for those of us who remember when comedy was good it fails on every level. It's sad for me because I really like that guy from the 40 Year Old Virgin...TV has basically been dying for me for the last 8 years. The death of Nickelodeon was when they canceled Invader Zim and dropped all the awesome afternoon programming and put in stupid shows about farting. Then Cartoon Network died when they dropped all their good programming--like the classics--and replaced all the anime with poorly dubbed commercialized junk. Then Disney, my last hope for TV, finally took the plunge, dropped just about all of their original programming--old Disney flicks, classic toons like Duck Tails, Tale Spin, etc.--and started making spin-offs of Disney classics. Network TV had hope with Family Guy...thankfully that show is still on.
And now I'm rambling.

[Crocolyle]

Good writers deserve good payment. Bad writers don't. Period. Otherwise we should pay every writer the same and have communist-writing-world everywhere. I just really don't care about their plight because they at least have a writing job, whereas thousands of other people can't even get their foot in the door, and now if they try to take the jobs they'll probably be met with hatred, which would be rather ironic and hypocritical on the WGA's part. Maybe I'm turning my back on them, but so be it. I don't consider the WGA to be a group worth joining. I don't believe in unions. They demand too much of everyone else, in general.


Bad writers don't deserve payment? Christopher Paolini.

The strike isn't about them getting paid exactly the same amount. It's more about the current rate of DVD residuals and residual payment when their the product they helped create is viewed on the internet and in other forms of new media. If I wrote a movie, I'd like to be paid fairly every time a DVD of that movie was sold. Unions protect the interest of those involved in them. They actually make a lot of sense to join. If other writers come in and take their jobs, none of the writers get any benefit from it.


Ah, here's the difference. Words on a page and TV screen time are not of the same quality. What is written for the screen is generally short and concise because the writer has less to do with what is actually directed on to the screen. In novels, the writer has to write down everything. All the little details from what the character is doing, to how the world around him exists. Screen writers have very little impact on that, and often their instructions are ignored when they are present because directors are 'visionaries', or so they say.
So, on the subject of Paolini, if we were to look at literature and get upset at re-used ideas, then we would have to look all the way back to the dawn of literature and discount everything written from the ancient texts on, because it's all a rehash of pre-written ideas. The screen, however, has a different job to do. It can't simply reshow the same idea over and over because there's little room on a screen to be original. Because TV and Movies are intentionally written to entertain and rarely written to be profound, it is constantly under scrutiny by the masses. Horror movies are a wonderful way to look at this concept. When was the last time you saw a truly amazing horror film that didn't follow the common horror trends (things like idiot characters who know there is a murderer going around, yet when they hear a noise they go investigate rather than hightailing it in the opposite direction and calling the cops)? Very, very, very few. Saw, the Ring (which sort of doesn't count), umm...yeah, not very many. Writers can get away with reusing ideas simply because writers can spin those ideas, add character, etc. Television/Movies have little room for that, and therefore, must make higher efforts to be more original. Books also lack the ability to present something visually. Books have to basically 'tell' you what something looks like. TV is the opposite.
The Office is an example of a show that brings to light that Hollywood desperately needs another Seinfeld. Maybe it's good, but for those of us who remember when comedy was good it fails on every level. It's sad for me because I really like that guy from the 40 Year Old Virgin...TV has basically been dying for me for the last 8 years. The death of Nickelodeon was when they canceled Invader Zim and dropped all the awesome afternoon programming and put in stupid shows about farting. Then Cartoon Network died when they dropped all their good programming--like the classics--and replaced all the anime with poorly dubbed commercialized junk. Then Disney, my last hope for TV, finally took the plunge, dropped just about all of their original programming--old Disney flicks, classic toons like Duck Tails, Tale Spin, etc.--and started making spin-offs of Disney classics. Network TV had hope with Family Guy...thankfully that show is still on.
And now I'm rambling.

What really matters in the film and TV industry is what sells. They should write whatever gives them money. They don't need to make greater strides to be original just because they don't handle every aspect of the work. Once again, film and TV is largely about entertaining audiences not artistic achievement.

Using your example of horror movies, they rarely present something new, but they offer an hour and a half when you can enjoy a scary movie. They still make a lot of money. I still see horror movies, not because I expect them to bring anything new to the genre, but because they're fun to watch. Because they are under the constant scrutiny of the masses, as you put it, they don't need to be original, they need to be entertaining. Originality entails a risk, and risks might not make much money. The writers in the film and TV industry only have to and only should write something that will earn the studio money, just as print writers have to earn their publisher money. That's what the whole writing industry is about: money. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

I'm not saying that is how it should be, but that's how it is.

[Zaphkiel]

I'm sorry for interupting this crucial argument, but let's not turn this into a debate guys:cool:. You both make valid points, and you both have said things that are not correct.

Now, I'm sure we could all list things that would make somebody a bad writer, but that would waste time. If someone put all their mind, body, and sould into one piece that didn't end up making a profit, I don't think they deserve to be called a bad writer, or someone who doesn't deserve to get paid.

And yes, the writing industry is mostly about money, but I don't thimk that's what its all about. Writing can be used to incorporate good values into the readers(ex-children or teens). Sometimes the goal of a writer is to create a story that will allow the reader to escape the harsh reality we live in, if even for a moment.

Anyway, this Writer's Guild of America Strike can work for both the Television/Movie industries and the Writers.:D

[Shaun]

Bad writers don't deserve payment? Christopher Paolini.

The strike isn't about them getting paid exactly the same amount. It's more about the current rate of DVD residuals and residual payment when their the product they helped create is viewed on the internet and in other forms of new media. If I wrote a movie, I'd like to be paid fairly every time a DVD of that movie was sold. Unions protect the interest of those involved in them. They actually make a lot of sense to join. If other writers come in and take their jobs, none of the writers get any benefit from it.

Unions remove individuality. If you join a union you are expected to support the union or be booted out and shunned if you don't agree. That's a Nazi ideology, only minus the violence and murder. But it's still fascist thinking.
Well fine, demand the payment, demand fans write letters and email, blah blah, but going on strike is only screwing all their fans out of enjoyment. Now fans get to watch reruns, and probably a lot of those reruns are crappy old shows. If I actually watched TV I would be so pissed at this point because all the shows I'd be watching now won't end. Good job. If they asked for fan involvement things might have gone a different way.



What really matters in the film and TV industry is what sells. They should write whatever gives them money. They don't need to make greater strides to be original just because they don't handle every aspect of the work. Once again, film and TV is largely about entertaining audiences not artistic achievement.

Movie sales aren't exactly doing too well. Especially not horror movies...good god a lot of those are such crap. Sales reflect the lack of originality on all fronts. Lots of copycat shows get canceled every year, leaving behind only the ones that aren't so obvious, but still copycat.


Using your example of horror movies, they rarely present something new, but they offer an hour and a half when you can enjoy a scary movie. They still make a lot of money. I still see horror movies, not because I expect them to bring anything new to the genre, but because they're fun to watch. Because they are under the constant scrutiny of the masses, as you put it, they don't need to be original, they need to be entertaining. Originality entails a risk, and risks might not make much money. The writers in the film and TV industry only have to and only should write something that will earn the studio money, just as print writers have to earn their publisher money. That's what the whole writing industry is about: money. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

Horror movies aren't entertaining though. Again, sales reflect this. Very few horror films make a lot of money. But original, superb, well crafted horror films could drive the market sky high if they took the chance to do it.
And as far as the writers. If they only write to the market, fine, then I really don't care. Let them complain and bitch and moan about it all they want, and may the studios tell them "fine, if you don't want to work, we'll hire other people" and screw all of them out of jobs. I don't care. But maybe that's just because I'm heartless to my 'fellow writers', though I don't consider most of these people to be my 'fellow writers'. Most of them are just selfish jackasses.

[Zaphkiel]

I don't think I'm a selfish Jackass:(. HAHAHAHAHA:D!!!!!!! Seriously, I think this conversation is going just a bit too far for it to be in the common room.

[Shaun]

Well no, but you're also not on strike :P

[Zaphkiel]

Hmm...true that:icecream:. So, basically what you're saying is that you wouldn't support the strike, correct?

[Shaun]

No, but I'm also rather jaded towards television, as you can see. I don't find much of anything on TV to be very profound or interesting, but Lyle obviously does, and this is just a difference of opinion really. I would only support the strike if other avenues of persuasion had been exhausted, but the fact that these writers have completely ignored their fans and decided to take away what makes their fans happy by not writing anything somewhat disgusts me. They could have done so much to prove that Hollywood isn't listening. Right now, I just don't care. The Internet is a powerful tool that could be used effectively in this case to persuade Hollywood to consider their terms, but as far as I can tell they skipped over involving their fans into the discussion and moved right to picketing. Maybe, MAYBE, they'll get what they want. But a lot of these people might not get any work now by being involved. That and I don't like the WGA because they basically are outing anyone that is still working. They just got pissed at Ellen Degeneres for doing her show and are going to protest her latest screenings. Excuse me? So because you're pissed off you don't want anyone else working to make a living? Selfish. Fine, be pissed all you want, but don't tell people they can't work. I mean, she could afford to take the time off, but she has loyal fans for chrissake and maybe her fans are more important to her, as they damn well should be.

[Zaphkiel]

I see where you're coming from on this, and you make a valid point. Still, those writers may be taking away what makes their fans happy for the moment, but they are fighting for what they believe in. I think that fact, if anything involving their actions, is true...don't you agree?

[Shaun]

Perhaps. I don't think all of them are really fighting for the same reason though. A lot may be picketing because if they don't they will get booted out of the WGA and likely be protested against vehemently. They don't have much choice but to be involved. Some probably have no reason to picket at all because they already aren't creating much of anything that will help them financially. There may be a small portion of them that actually should care about it, but the methods by which they are doing this are somewhat misguided and also somewhat wrong.

[GeorgeMichael]

So angy at that now!!! They aren't letting writers go to help out with the Golden Globes or the Academy Awards, and they are saying that it would be great if they could bring down the Awards shows. They are also saying that they are expecting that Actors to not cross the picket lines and go to the awards.

It just makes me so mad because I always watch the Oscars and the GG (don't judge me) and this was just the final straw, especially since they allowed writers to go to write for the Writer's Guild Awards (Figures...Hypocrites) So, yeah...really not happy with them right now.

[Guessed]

I feel like I have nothing intelligent to add to this thread. I'm just happy, in a cynical way, that things are looking bad for TV programming. Most of the shows I like are out of the WGA, of course, so I'm a bit of a hypocrite.

[Imelda]

George, writing for their own awards is fine, it benefits them and it's not hypocritical. Writers don't get paid astonishingly well, they should have every penny they're demanding. I hope it really kicks Hollywood and the television networks in the pants. :p

[Shaun]

It probably won't do any of them any good Imelda. Hollywood is so rich they can afford to sit it out for a while. The WGA can't. I hate the WGA actually because anyone who desperately needs to work will be shunned and exiled by them. It's stupid.

[Imelda]

It's not. Writers deserve the money. Why should executives and actors get everything? Without the writers, the entertainment industry doesn't go anywhere.

[Shaun]

It is stupid because they aren't offering writers a choice. They'll boycott and ruin you if you try to write while they're on strike. Which is completely bullcrap because some people write to eat. Is the WGA offering to house and feed all these writers who can't afford to go on strike?