Fairy Tales: Lack of Badness

[Andy]

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/09/21/fear_of_fairy_tales/

This isn't the first time I heard about fairy tale-retellings where the monsters or evil are left out. The original Little Mermaid had the mermaid die at the end because of trusting the Sea Witch. Certainly there wasn't a happy ending, or a sequel. Same on you, Disney. Give us a sad ending for once.

Do you think leaving out such things is a bad idea? Not just for keeping the original intact, but for keeping kids unaware of people with bad intentions, or that it's censorship/political correctness, in a way?

[jordanisonfire]

Well, obviously parents don't want their kids to see the "big bad side of the world." If someone showed their children say a very violent film or a pornographic video, and it reached the news, many would label them as a terrible parent. But obviously if say Disney were to give a sad ending, it wouldn't be at that magnitude. I think maybe they make it a happy ending for sales. I mean, take High School Musical. Possibly the cheesiest thing to hit TV (and now cinemas), and why? Because it's a happy and smiley thing. If the characters were in (quite a bit of) peril, all the little children wouldn't really enjoy watching it.

[Andy]

One thing I've noticed is that all villains nowadays play a dual role of comic relief. Every villain is either clumsy, has a henchman who always makes fun of him/her, or is always made fun of by the good guys, or looks like a goof. There's no fear anymore, except in dystopia films and some books.

[GeorgeMichael]

I think Disney et al put quite enough horror into their films. Aladdin and that lava thing terrified me ... The Little Mermaid was scary when Ursula did that whole sea-whippy thing (I still can't believe they showed that to a class of five year olds ...). And Bambi! That's the most awful film ever!

So yeah, I think Disney have enough depressiveness in their films for kids without having everyone die at the end. We all know not to trust people with suspicious shadows and sidekicks who hiss and smirk in an unpleasant manner, no matter what they're offering. We don't need it bashing into our heads that we're going to die when we're through ignoring the bad guys. There are enough emos around as it is.

:O :O :O You forgot Lion King!!!

One thing I've noticed is that all villains nowadays play a dual role of comic relief. Every villain is either clumsy, has a henchman who always makes fun of him/her, or is always made fun of by the good guys, or looks like a goof. There's no fear anymore, except in dystopia films and some books.

again, I reference Lion King :P I stay on my opinion that Scar is the best modern Disney Villain... he's just so awesome... and Jeremy Irons has the coolest voice

but yeah, I don't really agree with fairy tales being changed for kids... but that's in retelling. As far as Disney movies go I agree with it on some level because I don't think I could have handled Ariel dying... Bambi's mom was harsh, but killing off the main character seems too much for any Disney film. Imagine if they never found Nemo and he got turned into sushi.

[Nyx]

I agree with Imelda.

We don't need anymore depression.

Also, to even older people, Disney and such are like an escape to a happier ending side of the world, if everything and every movie was depressing, we would never get our happy escapes and we'd become depressed too.

[Starry]

I agree with Imelda.

We don't need anymore depression.

Also, to even older people, Disney and such are like an escape to a happier ending side of the world, if everything and every movie was depressing, we would never get our happy escapes and we'd become depressed too.

I think the issue with Disney movies is that they take pre-existing fairy tales with darker endings and then change them to suit their audience of five-year-olds. If they just used the happy stories to begin with, or had some sort of originality and actually created their own, then they wouldn't have the issue of kids growing up and realizing that that's not how the story really goes.

[Nyx]

I think the issue with Disney movies is that they take pre-existing fairy tales with darker endings and then change them to suit their audience of five-year-olds. If they just used the happy stories to begin with, or had some sort of originality and actually created their own, then they wouldn't have the issue of kids growing up and realizing that that's not how the story really goes.

I don't really think it matters. It doesn't really matter for kids to grow up and learn that a disney character is actually meant to die, it doesn't have any morbid effect.

[Starry]

I don't really think it matters. It doesn't really matter for kids to grow up and learn that a disney character is actually meant to die, it doesn't have any morbid effect.

I still wish Disney could actually create their own stories instead of Disney-fying already existing fairy tales.

[Nyx]

I still wish Disney could actually create their own stories instead of Disney-fying already existing fairy tales.

Haha, I honestly don't see the problem with it. Yes, they could've been more original, but dinsey ANIMATIONS are still one of a kind, they're epic and classic and that's what matters.

[Shaun]

The problem is that kids can be impressionable and when you make movies or cartoons with kids as the target audience there is generally a requirement that there be a happy resolution. It's cliche and it can be annoying to adults, but you can't really leave kids with an image of despair. Not only does it not sell, but it can really ruin their little world. I'm not saying they'll become emo and start slitting their wrists, but the object of any movie for kids is for them to be happy at the end, not crying cause the Mermaid died. True, the messages in the original fairy tales were more realistic, but the purpose of fairy tales and the purpose of movies are entirely different. Fairy tales were often created by adults as a way of getting new generations of kids to either stay away from something or not do something. Hanzel and Grettle was used as a way of keeping kids from wandering off into the forest (not necessarily that specific tale, but certainly other stories there were similar).
So, while I find it laughable that Disney "ruins" the classic fairy tales, I do understand why they do what they do (except the sequelitis...that's bloody annoying). Besides, in a Christian world there's much more to be gleaned for kids from stories with happy endings than the alternative.

[jordanisonfire]

I think when I was very young I accidently watched an "adult" version of Little mermiad. Sufficed to say the mermaid came out of the water completely naked. I don't know if it was real or some kind of warped dream. But I was a kid, so how could I make something up like that? And no, it wasn't a cartoon, it was real. Argh, if it was real, it was probably the first time I've seen a naked woman.

I'll stop now, I'm aware I'm sounding creepy. x) Anyway, they should at least give some elements of horror and stuff. But I doubt kids will want to see blood. My little brothers wouldn't mind, seeing as they wouldn't have much of an idea what was going on. One definately wouldn't know, as he's autistic, and the other would probably burst out with a load of annoying questions.

[Ichigo]

I don't think kids (cause that's who is supposed to be watching Disney movies....:D) could take a disney movie that's sad. Arg. Shaun said everything I wanted to say. CURSES.

But Pocahontas was kind of sad right? (I'm not talking about the second one cause I refuse to see it.)

true, it could've been worse. Everyone could've gotten killed or something....But I cried my eyes out.

And Bambi.

[Andy]

Well, it's not that I think all movies should be more scary and sad. It's just that, if you clicked the link, the story is absurd. Rapunzel goes to a fair? At least have some conflict.

[Majyk]

Well, I know when I was little I would have hated it if Ariel had died at the end of the movie, but that Rapunzel story was made too... nice (for lack of a better word). Fairytales need a villain. I mean, the witch was good?

I don't think the movies have to be sad or take everything from the original fairytales, but they should keep more than that Rapunzel story did.

[jordanisonfire]

When Poca jumped off the cliff in the first one, I burst out laughing at the thought of her being impaled on rocks at the bottom. Hilarious thought! x)

[jordanisonfire]

Indeed. I like seeing the good people lose. For example, Sauron should have won. He was too awesome. And Gollum shouldn't have died, he was hilarious.

[Jessica]

Lol... This is what we're doing for English. I have a big paper as to why it's a bad idea that they left it out if you want it ^^ I got an A+ on it

[Syd Skydreamer]

If it were up to me, Disney would have been scraped long ago. All their movies are so so soo boring...

[Lykaios]

Dreamworks is the future! :D

[jordanisonfire]

And they're just copying High School Musical over again. Camp Rock = High School Musical only with rock music and the Jonas Brothers for all the teen girls to swoon over.

[GeorgeMichael]

Dreamworks is the future! :D

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!



That can never happen, Disney movie may make formulaic movies, but for the most part they're great, then they make sequels...and they suck. But their originals are usually great. (Talking animation here of course)

Dreamworks on the other hand just tries to cash in on Celebrity star power and crappy pop culture references. (for the most part of course, Shrek was a shining gem in dreamwork's resume)

but no! Dreamworks must never replace anything in animation. Pixar must come out on top.

[GeorgeMichael]

Dreamworks and Pixar BOTH suck. Bring back hand animation.

*gasp*

Hand animation IS much better, but Pixar doesn't suck :(

[Carraka]

PIXAR FOREVER!!

Nevermind that they're now beholden to Disney. Their plot, their character development, their workspace mood, their credits -- if I went animation anywhere, I'd go to them.

But I'm not gonna debate about which type of animation is better, when I care more about whether I'm entertained.

Now, as for Dreamworks ... -blink-

[Syd Skydreamer]

Pixar is the future people. Dreamworks need some original story ideas.

[lango]

Pixar rules :P
Hail toy story

[Crazy Shyness]

They need to present kids with a warning that bad people are out there, and they need to be more realistic with the bad people that they have in these fairytales; I mean usually you can tell instantly in these fairytales from the clothing or the crazy hairdoe, but in real life no ones going to be wearing a sign saying "I'm bad, don't trust me, run away!" So they need to show more badfolks that look as they might be the goodfolks to make it clear that in the real world you never can tell.

This dosen't directly involve Disney, but the only thing I saw that portrayed bad people like that was this strange movie I had to watch at a Cub Scout meeting x years ago. It was about strangers and all sorts of bad stuff. They had the 'bad guys' be normal, but most of the time I had no idea what was going on. Most of the kids were just ignoring it. Basically all the movie did for me was just creep me out a bit. If there would be a movie like that, it would have to make some sense. Either that or just make the parents tell their child about that kind of thing.

[-Wallflower-]

*Steps back onto the topic*
I mean usually you can tell instantly in these fairytales from the clothing or the crazy hairdoe, but in real life no ones going to be wearing a sign saying "I'm bad, don't trust me, run away!"


You mean like that guy in chitty chitty bang bang?
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w283/Buttons4me_01/Pics123.jpg

I mean, come on, whether he was offering you sweets or not, I think you'd stay away from him out of the plain fact he's a creepy bastard O_o

[casoloma123]

I think fairytales are fine the way they are. Sure they have an unrealistic take on reality but they're fairytales. They don't actually belong to the realistic realm. And yeah they could add some normal looking bad guys but they were written for little kids who may not understand what a bad guy is without some outlandish and sinister difference from the good guys. This is just my opinion.

[Fiction]

Someone wise once said that "Without sorrow there is no joy.". That is true. Could someone know the true value of sunbeam if there were no horrors in the world to compare it to? There is a warm, golden ray and cold, icy rain. Like in yin and yan, neither can exist without the other. Harmony is in disorder, and sorry is in the pursuit of happiness.

[S. Peppercorns]

The originals are very gruesome, and although I like to read them, I do not think that five-year-olds should hear about Snow White and her tight dress or the condemned princess in The Goose Girl who was sentenced to being dragged behind two horses in a barrel lined with nails. I would have been traumatized, as a toddler, and I think the fluffy, happy, happily ever after versions were good, then. Now I really want to read all the violent, original Grimm tales.

[Midsummernightsdream]

Disney: ugh.

[jcsk88]

I didn't know the original fairytales were gruesome, though I'm pretty sure I would like to read them now that I do. I'm actually rather interested in this genre, and I've written alternate re-tellings of Little Red Riding Hood and Humpty Dumpty on this site. While I agree that "happily ever after" endings are suitable for young readers to appreciate, I believe more advanced readers prefer grittier, slightly more twisted versions.

As for the Disney/Pixar/Dreamworks debate, I say only Square Enix makes the cut. FFVII anyone?

[Shaun]

Well, back in the day the darker, grittier stories were the things parents told their kids to keep them out of trouble. It's pretty cool, actually.