Human Choices

[Andy]

This is something that was brought up in my Sociology class this morning.

Are all of our actions and choices a direct result of our past actions and experiences? Or do you think there is some other factor involved - that even if all of a person's past were completely examined by some superintelligent test, it would not be possible to predict their next action?

[jordanisonfire]

Not necessarily. Some people have had terrible childhoods but very happy and cheerful adulthoods. Sure, past can affect our actions in the future (i.e. drug addicts tend more to be people who have had bad pasts). So, the past can affect our futures, but its not definite. If I have a brilliant childhood doesn't necessarily mean I'll be kind to everyone and be very gracious and caring.

[Andy]

Well, the theory is that if someone has a bad childhood and a happy adulthood, it is because certain experiences in such a precise order and time led them to be happy as adults. It's a bit hard to explain. :)

[jordanisonfire]

You're the one in Sociology, you should be able to explain it. Or where you not listening? haha.

[Andy]

This was only a small part of today's lecture, Shadow. :P But anyway:

Think about any decision you make. Like what to eat for lunch. Why did you make it? Usually it's because past experiences made you more likely to choose one option over another. The question is: could all of a person's actions be predicted if all of their past actions were known? Or is there still some other factor that would make any prediction uncertain?

[jordanisonfire]

Well, on the subject of food preferences, I love feta cheese. But if I didn't eat it all my childhood and discovered it when I was an old man, then my past did not affect my eating preferences, did it? Same if I eat meat all my life, then when I'm old I discover I prefer being vegetarian or vegan.

[Andy]

Well, on the subject of food preferences, I love feta cheese. But if I didn't eat it all my childhood and discovered it when I was an old man, then my past did not affect my eating preferences, did it? Same if I eat meat all my life, then when I'm old I discover I prefer being vegetarian or vegan.
Well, if you take into account new experiences and undiscovered personal preferences, I guess you could say it was impossible to predict whether you liked it or not. Unless somehow, your cheese preferences were influenced by your others. I guess that would require chemistry and biology to find out.

Shadow likes feta cheese. :) Finally, he admits it. :rolleyes:

[Rouge]

This was only a small part of today's lecture, Shadow. :P But anyway:

Think about any decision you make. Like what to eat for lunch. Why did you make it? Usually it's because past experiences made you more likely to choose one option over another. The question is: could all of a person's actions be predicted if all of their past actions were known? Or is there still some other factor that would make any prediction uncertain?


We could do a test.
If someone was honest enough. :P

[jordanisonfire]

I've always loved feta cheese! So tangy and rich and... yum.

/spam

[Shaun]

Our actions cannot be determined. We might be able to vaguely guess that someone will eventually do something, since psychologists do this, but actions are not always determined by the past and you can't predict them. There's just no way. You could never be exact, but you could say "he's going to do something violent at some point" and you'd probably be right.

[Pibs]

Well, on the subject of food preferences, I love feta cheese. But if I didn't eat it all my childhood and discovered it when I was an old man, then my past did not affect my eating preferences, did it? Same if I eat meat all my life, then when I'm old I discover I prefer being vegetarian or vegan.

Well, maybe your act of trying cheese was because you were raised to try new things. I mean, maybe if you were taught to be cautious of new things, you never would have tried cheese or vegetarianism. So, you would've never made that decision unless you were pre-conditioned to... it's like with animals, maybe, "conditioning" them to do certain things. Like, if every time my dog sits, I give him a treat. That makes him more likely to sit when he wants something, or when I ask him to. Could it be the same with humans? I say certainly, at least with some things.

...I dunno, random thoughts. :)

[jordanisonfire]

A good point, but still not entirely valid. You could be cautioned against it all in your chidhood by your parents, yet when you're older, say in your 70s or 80s, around the time you die, you meet someone who helps you to loosen up and try new things.

[Andy]

Our actions cannot be determined. We might be able to vaguely guess that someone will eventually do something, since psychologists do this, but actions are not always determined by the past and you can't predict them. There's just no way. You could never be exact, but you could say "he's going to do something violent at some point" and you'd probably be right.
Predicting actions is impossible. But the focus is if all our actions are determined by our past actions.

[jordanisonfire]

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying, it's not exactly necessary. Sure, it CAN affect, emphasis on "affect", not control, your future, but that isn't always necessarily so.

[ElephntFalingOffClif]

Of course a persons past will definitly affect some decisions in there future. Example: If I touch something that is hot and it hurts I'm not likely to touch it again therefore a past experience will have affected my future.

[Zaphkiel]

Of course a persons past will definitly affect some decisions in there future. Example: If I touch something that is hot and it hurts I'm not likely to touch it again therefore a past experience will have affected my future.

Yes, very true. Without our past, we are doome to repeat mistakes in the present, and without any control over the present, we have no future. This proves that the past is a key event in the human psyche, which influences the decisions we make. However, this does not dismiss the fact that we are not in control of our own destinies.

[ElephntFalingOffClif]

No we aren't in control of our destinies we are in control of decisions at the current point in time that we make them, however we are not in control of the consequences of our decisions.

[Mercy]

That's not always true, but several of my choices that I make now are influenced by my past experiences. However, what I may do in the future, I think, can not be determined by my past due to the future bringing new situations.

[ElephntFalingOffClif]

I agree, but in most repeated situations there is usually influence from the past. In a new situation where there has been no past experience before the inlfuence could come from lack of past, causing uncertanty and therefore possibly altering your decision if you had experienced a similar situation.

[appleofmyeye]

I believe past occurrences may contribute to a person's actions. There are so many other factors though. Instinct, knowledge of society, ect. If I were thirsty and drank a bottle of water, is that based on a past experience? It is a survival skill we understand as infants. Unless in past experience tells us we die without water. But even then that isn't an experience, it is knowledge. I don't have had to be dying of thirst before to know I need water to live.

[Zaphkiel]

No we aren't in control of our destinies we are in control of decisions at the current point in time that we make them, however we are not in control of the consequences of our decisions.

I halfway agree with what you are saying. Humans decide how they live their lives in the future, and they control their future with the choices they make. However, if the only destiny they can't control is death.

[ElephntFalingOffClif]

Unless someone would commit suicide. You can somtines control the death of others by killing them but I agree you can not escape death. You may take measures to put it off as long as possible but eventually everyone dies.

[appleofmyeye]

And then there are the people that do dangerous things and don't take precautions against death. If they are fully aware that they might die, they have the control to remove themselves from the situation.

[jordanisonfire]

My take on this whole thing now: No matter how closely you look at this topic, you won't come out with a precise answer. For example, a person may choose to be an overachiever, but not reach that goal. Or, they may reach that goal of an overachiever, get loads of education and qualifications, then be run down on the road before they could apply for the job of their dreams. Now, people would think of that person when they were at university or whatever and think, "He/she is gonna go places!". Unfortunately, the only place they went after their education, is across the road where they met it face-to-face. See what I mean? No answer for this. Same with the real topic of this thread, whether past actions control a person's future. This isn't necessarily true, but it could happen. For example, say someone is very smart and wants to go to private school, but their parents or carers can't afford it and they end up not getting the education they need. Thus, a person's past has affected what might have been their future. But this doesn't happen all the time. Think about it and you'll see you can't have an answer to this topic except: not necessarily.

[Zaphkiel]

My take on this whole thing now: No matter how closely you look at this topic, you won't come out with a precise answer. For example, a person may choose to be an overachiever, but not reach that goal. Or, they may reach that goal of an overachiever, get loads of education and qualifications, then be run down on the road before they could apply for the job of their dreams. Now, people would think of that person when they were at university or whatever and think, "He/she is gonna go places!". Unfortunately, the only place they went after their education, is across the road where they met it face-to-face. See what I mean? No answer for this. Same with the real topic of this thread, whether past actions control a person's future. This isn't necessarily true, but it could happen. For example, say someone is very smart and wants to go to private school, but their parents or carers can't afford it and they end up not getting the education they need. Thus, a person's past has affected what might have been their future. But this doesn't happen all the time. Think about it and you'll see you can't have an answer to this topic except: not necessarily.

Your theory is valid in some ways more than others, but as for your "private school" example, that would only effect their choice of the future, not their place. Also, if said student would simply work the system, what's stopping them from applying for grants or financial aid in order to get in the school? So, said student's family may not be financially stable, but this situation could push them to find another alternative, leading to a good choice(applying for grants), or a bad choice(simply giving up on life). This goes to show that a person's choices of their future are also influenced by their current situation(the present), not just the future.

[jordanisonfire]

Ah yes, I didn't think of grants. I don't think we have those in England, so it didn't spring to mind. But never mind, it's just an example that came into my head.

[Zaphkiel]

I understood what you you were trying to say, though.