Oh, my.

[seikoXchan]

I have just stumbled upon one of the hardest questions in my life so far:
Christianity or Atheism?
I was born and raised a Catholic, even though my father is Baptist or something like that. My grandfather does not believe in any religion anymore. One thing that I had stumbled upon in the bible had me thinking, though... homosexuality. I'm not going into depth, but basically, the bible's telling me that anyone who is gay, lesbian, or bisexual are not accepted into heaven.
Here's two examples of what I found:
1) 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10 - Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.
2) Romans 1:24-27 - Therefore God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them, even those who exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the One who created, who is blessed forever. That is why God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.
This is making me turn to Atheism.
Do NOT get me wrong; I am "straight". I believe, however, that God created people the way they are for a reason. If this is true, then why would homosexuality be frowned upon?


Whoo, that felt good to get off my chest.

[Lykaios]

Both of those quotes are in the new testament which was written by men with very stong beliefs, it's not their opinions that really matter but God's if you believe. Do you think God would really exclude people from heaven because of homosexuality? It's true he doesn't like it, but then aganin he doesn't like any sin full-stop, so if he forgives others for things like murder and thefts etc. then why wouldn't he forgive someone for who they are?

[seikoXchan]

Good point.
I totally zoned and forgot they were in the new testament, anyways.

[Alex]

if you wonder you are an agnostic, not an atheist.

Atheism is illogical in my opinion...

[Majyk]

Well, seiko... all that would be on the basis of there actually being a place called "heaven" and "hell". But anyway, if God created humans, why would he create something he doesn't like/want us to do? And people have free will, correct? Again, why would God have given us free will if she doesn't want us to do certain things? Wouldn't she just... not have those things exist to begin with?

[MusicObsessed]

Hold on, Majyk. I'm confused... Do you believe that God is a "she"? Just asking for clarification.

I think that there are different perspectives on everything. I don't have a problem with homosexuality, but I wouldn't necessarily like to be a roommates with a lesbian. It would just make me uncomfortable.

Anyway, I believe that God would have said this in the Ten Commandments if it was that big of an issue to him. Essentially, all sin branches off of disobeying the Ten Commandments. If it's not there, then I don't think God thinks it's wrong. I don't know. He may prefer heterosexual to homosexual, but I don't think it's a final ruling type of deal.

[Majyk]

I think God cannot be put into a "him" or "her" category. That's a human thing to do.

Eh, this isn't the debate thread, so I won't continue. I'd just be repeating myself, anyway.

[Phantom]

God is a WHO!
Why would God exclued anyone from heaven? All they have to do is repent... Ask for God to forgive them... Guess what! God Will.

[Starry]

God is a WHO!
Why would God exclued anyone from heaven? All they have to do is repent... Ask for God to forgive them... Guess what! God Will.

Unless you commit suicide. xD The one sin that automatically sends you to hell because there's no way to repent for it.

Ah, the absolute lack of logic present in religion...

[Andy]

First, I commend you for questioning your beliefs. It's a hard thing to do, and the world would probably be a far better place if more people did it seriously. :approve:

So...You seem to accept three things as fact, and it's these three things together that don't make sense:
1. God creates people the way they are for a reason
2. God disapproves of homosexuality
3. God creates certain people homosexual

In my opinion, the first one seems reasonable. Same with the second, because of your quote. And those two don't contradict each other. It's the third statement which introduces the conflict, so let's examine it.

Are people created homosexual? From what I've seen and read, no.

There have been news stories about identical twins where one twin chose to become gay and the other straight - which suggests homosexuality is not part of one's DNA - that people are not created homosexual. The fact that children who are adopted by gays are more likely to become gay also suggests that homosexuality is not inborn, but learned at some point in life.

I feel that like most ways of thinking and living, homosexuality is about choice. Nobody is forced to be gay or straight. (Or when applied to your religion: nobody is forced to face God's rejection). And you're Catholic, so there's reconciliation, right? They can choose to be forgiven. They are not doomed to rejection.:)

[Lykaios]

Unless you commit suicide. xD The one sin that automatically sends you to hell because there's no way to repent for it.

Ah, the absolute lack of logic present in religion...

I don't know many Christians who believe that's true. If someone is so unhappy that they'd kill themselves don't you think God would then want to make them happy after they die? It's not their fault that they were in a bad position that led them to make that descision and I beleive that because he is merciful and loving, that he wouldn't send someone who had suffered so much in their earth life then on to suffer for eternity in hell. It's not what someone loving would do. He'd see what was happening, understand the cercumstances and forgive them of their actions and proceed to make them happy.

[seikoXchan]

First, I commend you for questioning your beliefs. It's a hard thing to do, and the world would probably be a far better place if more people did it seriously. :approve:
...
There have been news stories about identical twins where one twin chose to become gay and the other straight - which suggests homosexuality is not part of one's DNA - that people are not created homosexual. The fact that children who are adopted by gays are more likely to become gay also suggests that homosexuality is not inborn, but learned at some point in life.

Really? I didn't know that. The last I heard about the "homosexuality gene" is that it wasn't fake... but that's good to know, I guess. :mellow:
Oh. And thank you all for looking at this. ^^

[jordanisonfire]

Meh, the Church of Satan is a way better religion than Christianity. Seriously, look it up. It has way better rules and it's realistic. Except that they believe in magic. And Satan. I'm atheist-cum-nihilist. But that didn't help at all.

[Majyk]

I can't be sure if you were done with this or not. So, if you don't care anymore, seiko, then... Just like, ignore me or something.

------------

Unless you commit suicide. xD The one sin that automatically sends you to hell because there's no way to repent for it.

Ah, the absolute lack of logic present in religion...

Doesn't God love everyone? Isn't God all loving? Then why would God send some to this "hell" and others to a "heaven"? If God is all love, then God won't judge you. Humans judge, God does not.

[Phantom]

No... I really don't think that if you commit suicide you go straight to hell... If you ask God to forgive you God will forgive you...
That's my veiw... I really don't think that many people go to hell...
Hitler did, there is no way around that.
Sadam Hussen did too...
Or maybe they didn't, but that would be my guess...
:P

Originally Posted by starryskyes
Unless you commit suicide. xD The one sin that automatically sends you to hell because there's no way to repent for it.

Ah, the absolute lack of logic present in religion...


Originally Posted by Majyk
Doesn't God love everyone? Isn't God all loving? Then why would God send some to this "hell" and others to a "heaven"? If God is all love, then God won't judge you. Humans judge, God does not.

Exactly... Majyk is right!

[Majyk]

Huh. Funny you should mention Hitler, Phantom. I was just reading a book yesterday that said he didn't go to hell at all.

[Phantom]

WHy wouldn't HITLER go to hell, genoside...
He deserves to burn.
I know... sadistic.

[Majyk]

Well... I said it before. And you agreed.


If God is all love, then God won't judge you. Humans judge, God does not.

[Phantom]

Okay...
God judges people who have committed heinous crimes, such as genocide.
My veiws are weird in that way...

[Lykaios]

God does judge but he judges justly and fairly. Hitler went to hell. He didn't have a good heart or intentions and didn't do good or anything and he definitly didn't believe in God to ask him for forgiveness.

[Majyk]

I think I said this before... If God gave you the ability to do some thing, then it's obviously fine with God if you do that thing.

[Phantom]

God does judge but he judges justly and fairly. Hitler went to hell. He didn't have a good heart or intentions and didn't do good or anything and he definitly didn't believe in God to ask him for forgiveness.

No, Lily, he believed in God... That is one reason he wanted to kill the Jews, if I am not mistaken, for killing Jesus...
Plus they wern't tall with blonde hair and blue eyes.