Advanced Crits Area

[Alex]

I got this idea from skimming around on YWS from a while. I think it'd be nice to have an area of advanced crits. It wouldn't have to be long pieces of work or even all literature as it is on YWS, just a place where the more experienced and seasoned writers can post their work to get harsher critiques. For a while I've been holding back on certain critiques with members I felt couldn't take or didn't truly want a harsh critique. I always give harsh critiques, its just how I think people learn, but I'm not quite a heartless bastard who enjoys ripping things up for the sake of ripping things up ((although I've been close, don't worry I've held myself back in those instances =p)). That being said, I think it'd be nice to have a place where I ((and other writers, of course)) could go and critique on the forum without the same inhibitions I have critiquing in the forums we have now.

Of course all crits of anything would have to be detailed, yada yada yada, you guys know the drill. Seems like I'm coming up with alot of suggestions lately? Maybe its just me, I dunno. That being said I understand if you can't ((or don't want to)) implement this because of limiting factors ((time constraints, amount of activity, etc.)) because I've thought about them as well. Just wanted to bring it to the limelight is all.

[Zombified]

I don't think there's a need for this.

If people can't take harsh critiques then that's their problem, don't crit them, if they cry and get mad at you, then ignore them.

Most of us can take a little pain, so don't be afraid to dish out what you feel.
That being said, don't be rude or an asshole or else we (Top brass) have to take action.

[Carraka]

In my humble opinion, every crit I give is an advanced crit. If I hold back, my explanations only grow longer.

So this section would be lost on me, though perhaps not lost on you.

[jordanisonfire]

If we had one of those, I'd just post in that section all the time. I want to harshest crit possible if it means my work is better. YWS probably just have that because they have Instructors, which are site staff that give the harshest crits. So that just gives them somewhere to look and makes it easier for them.

[Crocolyle]

I always give harsh citiques, or at least I like to think I do. From time to time, I have sugar-coated explanations, but I still usually point out the problems and explain what's wrong with it.

[Imelda]

If you can't take a harsh crit, say so above the piece ... it takes like, two seconds.

[Alex]

If you can't take a harsh crit, say so above the piece ... it takes like, two seconds.

Its not like I'm the one who can't take the harsh crit, I just don't want people complaining if I tear it limb from limb ((its happened a few times and I just came about this section at YWS recently and thought it was a good idea)). If no one wants to implement it thats fine...

[Andy]

Perhaps instead we could have an option for all the existing writing areas. For example, if you want a no-mercy crit, you could select an image or something to appear beside your thread's title.

This forum software already has this capability built-in ("Prefixes"), though I haven't found any uses for it yet. :)

[Crocolyle]

I like Andy's idea... is there like a mushroom cloud or a skull and bones (another victory for the pirates!)?

Edit: Though probably a prefix for the "Please don't hurt my feelings" would be better... like because probably only two people would actually know about the rule and we'd end up... like... having to sugar coat everything... so maybe a happy cloud or a unicorn (on the other hand the unicorn would probably be a better symbol for a harsh critique... to quote my friend... a unicorn is like a "track star rhinoceros. on crack. i. e. it. can. fuck. you. up. pretty bad." or something...

Edit Edit: Or perhaps, we could... like have... three levels or crit... puffy cloud, normal, and unicorn.

Unicorn is designed to give us sadistic release in a euphoria mixing pain, pleasure, and potassium cyanide (the three of the six p's [the others being pagans, protestants, and presybterians]). Woe betide to those who chose unicorn, because they are basically strapping themselves to a chair in Gitmo where they will be verbally waterboaded by Sauron if he were half-lawyer and half-Jesuit. From the unicorn lined edges of the critique forum we may potentially here screams calling for the lash, because physical pain will be better than the emotional and psychological abuse issued and encouraged on our literary brainchildren.

[Starry]

I like Andy's idea too. We have that system on my school forum too, actually, except that no one actually uses it because A) the images aren't obvious enough to tell what you mean, and we're all way too lazy to memorize the system, and B) the forum is so small that we know each other well enough to know how harsh to be with each person.

But if we make the icons clear enough and fun enough, so people are actually willing to use them, it should work. Otherwise, just have everyone say their crit preferences with each story post. (I always say "all comments appreciated" somehere on mine.) If there was an option with the post, to choose, say, "Please be nice, I'm new at this" or "Rip it to pieces, I want this to be really good" and have that appear before the post, it could work too. That's fairly similar, I suppose, but as long as you're somehow required to pick a level of harshness before you post, anything should work.

[Carraka]

I like Andy's idea, although I've been getting along fine without it. But Alex hasn't, so there you go.

Is there a symbol that would represent: "Be gentle, but rip it to pieces, and remind me at the end not to take things personally, and I probably won't read your critique for two months because I'll be too scared of it" ?

[jordanisonfire]

Maybe an angel with a pitchfork?

[Carraka]

Yeah, that's good.

[Crocolyle]

No one ever likes the unicorn idea...

[Mercy]

I'm so-so about the idea.

I realize that some people can't handle harsh critiques, but those people will never get better if you don't tell them the hard, honest truth. In my opinion, it seems cute, but it seems to defeat the purpose of a critique. If people can't handle a good yet harsh critique, they shouldn't be posting their work and asking for reviews/opinions.

Personally, I see the literature forums as a place to improve and help others with their craft, not give them what they want to hear.

[Andy]

At Critique Circle, a common phrase people used when posting was "I'm thick-skinned" or some variation. :flex:

If we went ahead with some sort of idea like this, I'd REALLY prefer it to be a difference between "Show no mercy!" and "Give me a good, honest critique." NOT "Give me a good, honest critique" and "Don't say bad things about my writing."

The difference between the first two, I think, is a matter of whether you're just trying to help the author improve (good & honest), or whether you're treating the thing like it will be published in a week, and your critique is the only thing that can save it (show no mercy).

[Shaun]

What if we added a small thing to the new thread thing as an option where you can tag your work. And it would show somehow in the forum on the title of the thread so people know "this guy wants us to rip him a new one" or something? That way we don't have to have a whole new thread area...
And when people open the thread it could have a small bit of text that tells the person going there that this person wants a harsh crit or a standard one or whatever.

[Imelda]

I think that's a good idea, Shauny Mc Shaun Shaun. It might also help to have a 'I'm not posting this for crits' option to include the folks who post to ... show off? I don't know why they post, frankly, but it would save whining if they just ticked a box ... and if they don't tick the box it's their own fault. :p

[random_writer]

Ah. I've gotten pretty non-harmful crits so far... I just went and put something to the effect of "Rip it to shreds" on each of my literature posts.
However, on another site that I belong to, someone told me my entire story was wrong... Just like that. He said, "This is all wrong," and left it at that. Very anti-helpful. But we don't do crits like that here!... I hope.