What annoys you in fantasy books? (the cliche things that drive you mad)

[Shaun]

Alright, so let's open a discussion about this. No pointing out specific works here. This isn't to be a rant about why you hate Eragon or some other fantasy work. This is about the things that are in fantasy, whether common today, or common from a time a while ago that someone is mistakenly trying to bring back, all of which annoy you.

Mine would be:
--Stilted dialogue (that ancient speak stuff where people sort of talk like Yoda and Shakespeare had a lovechild that spoke a little like each of them. You know what I'm talking about...ye olde spake). It's annoying and unbelievable. Really? Your fantasy world evolved out of a Shakespeare play? Bleh.
--Magic that seemingly has no limits, or the limits are not obvious. I don't mind extreme power, as long as it has consequences. In my fantasy world for WISB magic drains energy right out of you and untrained magic users can actually kill themselves if they don't learn to control the flow of energy. My main character, for example, actually destroys his hands numerous times because he can't stop the flow of energy as it courses out of his hands...so, he suffers cuts, bruises, broken bones, and fainting spells because of it...bringing close to death many times...and now in the second book his magic has basically backfired on him and he can't use it due to the damage to his body...
So, I hate when magic has no limits. It's cool to have unlimited power, but I like to know there is a balance to it.
--Creating languages that sound exactly like Tolkien's elvish. I can tell...cause I've read LOTR...and so have a lot of other people...at least try to be more original with it or something.
--Talking dragons. Stop...we've had enough.
--Also, dragons that can't really talk, but have telepathic links with people. This works if you're not trying to be serious with it, but when you want me to treat your work like LOTR...it's stupid. Do something new with dragons...
--Half-human half-*insert inhuman something here*. I know, it can work in fantasy, but I like my fantasy to be a little realistic, so humans mating with demon donkeys is really stupid to me...it doesn't work in the real world, it wouldn't work there either...and I just don't want to think about such a union.
--Using fantasy races that have been in human folklore for thousand of years, but being too limited in how you use to them as to make them hardly different from what Tolkien or the people that followed him did with such races. Elves used to be really short, people, and related to the faery world. Go back to that tradition and make it interesting.
--Cliche character types: the warrior who happens to be a long lost king, the character who can do no wrong, etc. You've seen them over and over. Either do something new with it, or go with ambiguity.

That's what I've got right now. What about you?

[Shaun]

Yes, but because there are inherent differences in elves all offspring would be sterile. It would be like horses and donkeys getting together. You end up with a mule...and the mule is sterile.

Good additions :P

[Litharukia]

Do Extremely Sadistic Racist elves count as 'different'?

You know what I hate? People that try to write using Tolkien's writing STYLE and FAIL. FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL. Yes, I'm looking at you Paolini.

And demons who are just evil Because They Can Be. Demons that aren't evil are cool, guys. Seriously COOL.

And vampires who are basically Lestat with a name change.

[Carraka]

-- Unpronounceable names with needless apostrophes, hyphens, or no vowels (Okay, maybe I'm a hypocrite with this one.)
-- Orphans
-- Quests for Magical Artifacts
-- Good v. Evil
-- Chosen One Prophecies
-- Revelations that the Hero is related to: the main villain, the villain's sidekick, a random stranger on the street (that soon dies), the hero's sidekick, the hero's mentor, etc.
-- Long-winded lectures on the faults of mankind

That's all I can think of for now. And most of these just annoy me, because I've been known to keep reading despite. But I am getting more picky ... eh ...

[Carraka]

Wait what delete Nikara?

[Majyk]

You guys've said it all. For me, anyway.


I agree with Shaun about the dialogue. So annoying.

-- Unpronounceable names with needless apostrophes, hyphens, or no vowels (Okay, maybe I'm a hypocrite with this one.)
-- Orphans
-- Quests for Magical Artifacts
-- Good v. Evil
-- Chosen One Prophecies
-- Revelations that the Hero is related to: the main villain, the villain's sidekick, a random stranger on the street (that soon dies), the hero's sidekick, the hero's mentor, etc.
-- Long-winded lectures on the faults of mankind

And I agree with all of the above in this post.

[Andy]

1 - Chosen One Prophecies, except when they're wrong. :P
2 - The stories where kids with no combat experience can go and start winning battles with swords (like the first Narnia movie - remember when Lucy threw the dagger at the target?)
Revelations that the Hero is related to: the main villain, the villain's sidekick, a random stranger on the street (that soon dies), the hero's sidekick, the hero's mentor, etc.Oh, gosh, those drive me crazy. Or when characters suddenly find their long-lost brother near-dead in the middle of a forest after an ambush. :devious:

[Carraka]

1 - Chosen One Prophecies, except when they're wrong. :P
2 - The stories where kids with no combat experience can go and start winning battles with swords (like the first Narnia movie - remember when Lucy threw the dagger at the target?)
Oh, gosh, those drive me crazy. Or when characters suddenly find their long-lost brother near-dead in the middle of a forest after an ambush. :devious:What book did that happen in?

[Andy]

What book did that happen in?
The Naming. Same with the Chosen one thing. :(

[Carraka]

Oh, right.

As mentioned earlier, I forgave those series.

[Shaun]

1 - Chosen One Prophecies, except when they're wrong. :P
2 - The stories where kids with no combat experience can go and start winning battles with swords (like the first Narnia movie - remember when Lucy threw the dagger at the target?)
Oh, gosh, those drive me crazy. Or when characters suddenly find their long-lost brother near-dead in the middle of a forest after an ambush. :devious:

If you read the book you'd understand that those weapons they were given were magical. Hence why she could throw it and hit things.

[ScottyMcGee]

Shaun, you know I made a guide on this right? Attack of the Cliches?

[Nyx]

The Naming. Same with the Chosen one thing. :(

Ok wow, way to not put that in a spoiler and ruin the Naming for me as I'm reading it now:rolleyes:

And the number one thing that I can't stand is orhpans that suddenly find their unknown magical power.:glare:

[Carraka]

We forgive Harry Potter, but no more exceptions!


That's right!

[Litharukia]

I forgive Narnia.

But not HP.

Never HP.

Yes, that's right, HP, I HATE YOU FOR WHAT YOU'VE DONE.

[Nyx]

We forgive Harry Potter, but no more exceptions!


That's right!

Yea, I forgive HP.

Nyx, it's obvious from like, chapter two or something. :p

I'm still on the second page, I kinda got bored and switched to the God Delluson.:rolleyes:

[Shaun]

How are you liking The God Delusion, Nyx? I imagine considering your religious background you might find it a little jarring. Realize he's being funny most of the time. There's a LOT of sarcasm and mockery in there.

Anywho. Scotty, yes, I realize that you have a cliche thing, but these aren't necessarily cliches I'm asking for. I just want the things that annoy you about fantasy. They don't have to be cliches or tropes. They can be anything, even something as silly as "I hate it when fantasy worlds have characters named Bill".

Anywho. I have another:
--Any time an author thinks they are being clever, when really it's super obvious what is going on. Like, trying to be sneaky about inserting a prophecy cliche, which is insulting to me, because I can see right through it...

[Andy]

Anywho. I have another:
--Any time an author thinks they are being clever, when really it's super obvious what is going on. Like, trying to be sneaky about inserting a prophecy cliche, which is insulting to me, because I can see right through it...
I've got another, though it's not fantasy-specific.

Whenever the good guys are stuck in a situation where it's fairly obvious they'll die, and a totally new character randomly enters and saves their lives. :rolleyes:

[Shaun]

Good one :D.

[Nyx]

How are you liking The God Delusion, Nyx? I imagine considering your religious background you might find it a little jarring.
I'm finding it mostly more boring than jarring:rolleyes:


Realize he's being funny most of the time. There's a LOT of sarcasm and mockery in there.

...

Yea, I realize, I'm not that stupid:P

[Hannah_Scotland]

I personally don't like much fantasy in general...
The only fantasy I love is Harry Potter

[Ichigo]

HAHA! I agree with what Carr said with the incomprehensible names.

I actually agree with most of the points brought up here. I like my fantasy a little...more realistic. If that makes sense.

[Rafael Domination]

I absolutely HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE corny spell chants.

Especially when the character is so into it, but has this totally irritating voice. Some of them can pull it off, but the others send this spurt of fury up my spine.

What I hate even more is when you can actually understand what the character is saying - and it sounds like a uber-cheesy poem some five-year-old made up. No offense to those of you who are.

[Zombified]

I don't like how there is always (or for the most part) some stupid romance thing going on with either the Main Character or someone else.

Its like a sub plot that doesn't even matter!

[Andy]

I don't like how there is always (or for the most part) some stupid romance thing going on with either the Main Character or someone else.

Its like a sub plot that doesn't even matter!
Two words: Jodi Picoult. She does it all the time. Not a fantasy writer, though.

@Rafael: Spells that rhyme drive me crazy. :doh:

[Shaun]

Yeah, the romance thing and spoken spells annoy me too. The latter only because it has become hokey these days...even when done well.

[Carraka]

Romance subplots don't bother me if they develop character. Or sometimes they just don't bother me. That's not a thing that bothers me. Yeah.

[Shaun]

I'm not deleting Nikara. I like that story thank you very much.

[Carraka]

... you've read it?

[Nyx]

I like the romance...
But yea who doesn't hate the cheesy rhyming spells?!

[Mercy]

I'm sick of prophecies, the "bad guys" wanting to take over the world, demons being evil, angels being good, romantic, harmless vampires, werewolf versus vampire conflict, and I know there is more but I can't remember. x3 I think another one might be that fantasies with elves and such always take place during the medivial ages. Their world can change and their technology can evolve over time, right? So why not have them in different time periods or the future? I would like to see a 21st centuary world with elves and centaurs. I think the only author I can think of that has done this is J.K. Rowling and Harry Potter took place in the 80s, right?

I also hate cocky, arrogant villians...but that goes for all stories, I guess. They capture the character and then drone on about their evil plan and then what happens? They get owned. x3

[Joker]

I would say the most annoying things would be.

1. Humans. I hate that every single fantasy has humans in it. Use something different.
2.Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, etc. Like with humans. Too many.
3. Lovecraft ripoffs. There are other naming methods for ancient evils that use vowels.
4. Big destructive magic all the time. Wouldn't subtelty just rock?
5. Classic villain archetypes. Can't live with em, Can't live without em.

[Nyx]

werewolf versus vampire conflict,

Is there any book with that other than twilight?O_o

[Carraka]

I feel like I've seen the werewolf v. vampire thing a million times before, but if I think about it carefully, I don't know of any instances other than in twilight ...

Maybe I've just seen it a lot informally on the Internet? Roleplays, and so forth?

[mrfusspot]

I think the thing that annoys me most is the "orphan child who nobody likes but when he gets chosen by (insert organization here) he realizes he's important to the world" thing.
And when the author puts in too many races. If you need to have a glossary in the back to explain everything, there just might be too much stuff.

[Simmi]

Most of you guys mentioned everything that I hate about fantasy. But I'll just mention some again :D

1. Names that I can't pronounce, and have to make sure there isn't a glossary or prononciation page in the back of the book.
2. Using foreign languages. I'm fine with it when it's not used alot, but in Jumper: Griffin's Story they were speaking like Spanish and French. I had to keep asking my mom 'What does this mean?'
3. Dragons. I'm just tired of dragons, even though I was obsessed with them for some time it's just annoying now.
4. Weird spells. Like the ones that are very bad with the rhyming or uncomprehendible words... Like 'Asfganif' okay that might not actually be one but someone might be stupid enough to write it. No offence to those magic fantasy writers it's just one of my pet peeves >.<

Annnd that's pretty much it...\

EDIT: I just remembered another thing I hated. Romeo and Juliet type things, even though it's not fantasy some people put it in fantasy and it's really dumb...

[J.L.A.Montoya]

What I Hate (not just fantasy, but basic fiction too):

-The Evil Empire clad in black armor, with torn-up black banners, possible black/red dragons, a language with a lot of consonants to give it a hiss and evil nature.

-The Evil King (wielding a huge evil-looking sword and black, spikey armor) who wants to kill everyone for power, hates everyone for no explained reason, and is utterly evil.

Note: Tolkien is excused because he's a genius. This thread can't apply to High Fantasy at all, really.

-The Hero and/or Sidekicks that can pick up a weapon and they're instantly masters of it.

-Enemy soldiers that are easily defeated by the dozens by the Hero; they're professional soldiers, and odds are, the hero is no professional.

-Magic that is limitless; I don't like Superhero's, so I don't like unlimited Magic.

-Elves and Dwarves.

-Stupid villains (the ones who reveal their plan, then die). I like arrogant villains, hell, my villain is arrogant. But he's not stupid. He's sophisticated, and intelligent. And yes, he can be wounded. So can the hero.

-Immortality/Invulnerability/Immunity/Incredibility. What happened to the good old fashioned human?

[Rafael Domination]

Ha. I happen to like things that happen on a cosmic scale, thank you very much. When my bad guy says that he is the most powerful being in existence, I make sure he's the most powerful being in existence. Hey, DC and Marvel uses a lot of Cosmic and Omnipotence stuff too, and they're selling pretty good. I believe that as long as both sides are cunning, appropriately stylish, unique, eccentric and interesting, and the plot is good, these things will only add flavor and spice to it. ^^

[J.L.A.Montoya]

I'm not speaking against comic books, but, I dunno. I just don't like them. They're too unreal for me, I guess.

[Rafael Domination]

Naw, I was just using comics as an example. Well, that's alright. You're a ninja, so I don't mind you not liking the extreme. :P

But yeah, I like the contrast of extreme and ordinary. I use both, and I prefer not to overdo either. Too much ordinariness and realistic-ness make it too stagnant and boring to me. For much extreme and high-end things make it too confusing and sour. But, in a combo, I am wowed, awed, inspired and haunted. Yeah...that's me. :D

[Knowvella]

A lot of things already mentioned annoy me, too. Some other things:

-Destiny crap.
-A medieval fantasy world, or any sort of "other world" that is EXACTLY like a time period here on Earth.
-Any sort of plot where a thirteen year old single-handedly saves the entire world.
-Princesses who hate their riches and/or anything girly.
-Characters who don't use contractions. -dies-
-"Good" characters are beautiful and the "evil" characters are ugly.
-Characters or the author getting overly preachy about humanity, love, religion, etc.
-Magic without limits or order. Also, magic that's just tossing energy balls around. Can't we be a little more creative?

[Jack]

Knowvellla, look at the post above yours; it's dated 2008.

[Amour]

Well.. even though this was accidentally revived, I want to add :P ---

I hate fantasy books that try to incorporate EVERY single fantastical thing in it. Wizards, Demons, Elves, Dwarfs, Trolls, Dragons, Some Original Magic/Evil Thing, Seers, Shapeshifters, Angels... until you forget what the novel is actually specifically about: Conflict of Humans and Dwarfs? Wizards and Dragons? Angels and Seers?

It always bugs me when it looks like some new species or element is being introduced because the Author thinks it's cool to include, rather than it actually having a purpose in the story.

[silentspeaker]

I think the things I hate most about fantasy books are that:
#1- they all have the same or very similar plot lines (not very interesting after a while)
#2-They all have the same or similar themes
#3-They seem way to far fetched for me...who cares about magic and talking dragons when they don't exist?

And like many of the others said, they just don't have a point to them so they a bit of a waste of time to read.

[Bowie20049]

I think the things I hate most about fantasy books are that:
#1- they all have the same or very similar plot lines (not very interesting after a while)
#2-They all have the same or similar themes
#3-They seem way to far fetched for me...who cares about magic and talking dragons when they don't exist?

And like many of the others said, they just don't have a point to them so they a bit of a waste of time to read.

It's not that fantasy doesn't have a point, it's just that the point is hidden throughout the story. The above is pretty much bashing nearly what fantasy is about. If nobody wants magic or things that don't exist, then read a realistic work.

[jcsk88]

How self-contradictory. So the point of your reply would be?

(Don't reply to this.)

/endspam

[Bowie20049]

Anyhow, another cliche in most nearly any other book is the twin cliche. Yes, twins can range on all books, but one twin cliche revolves around twins reading each other's minds, using powers only when nearby, feeling what the other felt, etc.

[Inkweaver]

I would have to say the most annoying things would have to be...

- Cliche, cheesey dragons or classicly "evil" creatures
- Too little descirption of the world or its inhabitants
- Simply being too small for an entire world
- Outragious superpowers that pop-up out of nowhere

I am sure I will think of some more later, but that's it for now.

[Elisa]

-definitely stuff about fate and basically destiny
-too much description
-and (majorly) typos in published books-It's ridiculous!

[Killian]

-- The Chosen One. As in, no other person can do (insert quest here). However, Harry Potter is an expection because Voldemort made Harry this when Harry could've been a normal wizard boy. All Voldy's fault. :P

-- Evil vs. Good. I mean the complete, one side is completely evil, the other is good. I'm biased but I want reasons, people! Reasons, sympathetic villains, something other than 'So-and-so is PURE EVIL!!!' O.e

-- No Limitations. For their powers if you know what I mean.

-- The Hero Always Wins. No. I'm afraid to say I don't care too much for that. Bittersweet endings with the hero winning maybe, but I don't want extreme happy-happyness.

-- Everyone Gets Someone. You know what I mean. Pair up everyone! I do tend to have tons of pairings but I like tragic ones as well. Like killing one or both of them off. And I don't mean like Romeo and Juliet.

Really, I prefer Earn Your Happy Ending and a few realistic limitations in my fantasy. ^-^

Oh, and character development. Gotta have that. :P

[peepingthesmurf]

There are so many things: chosen ones, dragons, endless power, named swords...but my main offender is this: APOSTROPHES.
In every fucking fantasy book (pardon my French), there's a name with some random apostrophe just thrown into it.
"Ra'zac," "Za'roc," it's so annoying! What does the apostrophe even do? In most fantasy books, it just seems to be a contest of who can have the longest, hardest to pronounce, most consonant heavy names with the most apostrophes! It drives me mad!

If you have a character named Shr'gtuhi-ma'rosie'apnng'o in your story, I will not read it. God.

[Bowie20049]

If you have a character named Shr'gtuhi-ma'rosie'apnng'o in your story, I will not read it. God.

Oh shit, how'd you guess? Nah, I'm playing.

I hate names with no vowels in them :3 or an orgy of x's and z's.

[DarkerThanBlack]

I agree with everyone else when it comes to the cliches with dragons and such, though sometimes I get in the mood where I just want to read about dragons and shit, no matter how much it's been done.

The thing I hate, as others have mentioned, are the names that are nearly impossible to pronounce. I'm glad if the different races/nationalities in a book have their own unique style for names, but if I have to pause and ask myself "how in the fuck do I pronounce that?" then I usually just put the book back on the library shelf and find something else to read.

[tech.no.logic]

Bad war endings. You know, the little army are standing in the middle of the battlefield with hordes of horses and soldiers and all kinds of warriors lying in piles around them, and they had around two casualties. Not very realistic.

The chosen one, of course. How can you not hate him or her? That person gets to do all the cool stuff, and will always win in the end. Being invincible sucks.

The evil side always being evil, right through. The good side is betrayed, but the evil side is always pure evil, and nothing more. It's just evil and will remain so until it's annihilated.

And sometimes the characters are too statics, they never change, but that isn't unique for fantasy book...

[Death]

Let's see:

- the Doomed Hometown
- the Wise Old Mentor who dies in Part I but later resurrects some way
- the fact Every Chosen One Is An Orphan
- ...until Part II where the Big Bad has the Luke I Am Your Father moment
- ...or till he finds out he (almost) married / shagged his sister
- The X, Z, R, W, Gr overload in villain names.
- panthers, dragons, unicorns or other Mary Sue Pets
- Greek mythology creatures in fantasy. Why can't they come up with something new?
- the hero always falls in love with an important member / leader of La Resistance
- the Dark Lords really could find some more creative name :D
- the fact there's always a semi-villain or complicated character who's a lot more interesting than the Hero
- ...and this cool guy always gets Redemption Equals Death.
- the Evil Empire in always on North or East.
- Damsel In Distress, in any form
- the Warrior Chick With Big Boobs And Useless But Sexy Armor isn't too good either.
- why are all dwarfs greedy and beer-addicted?
- why is the Chosen One always a teen or very young boy?

[Amour]

HAH. Death. I had to completely agree with pretty much all of those.

Greek mythology creatures in fantasy. Why can't they come up with something new?

I kind of like that incorporation, though. If it's done correctly, with some real purpose.

[Rose]

Let's see:

- the Doomed Hometown
- the Wise Old Mentor who dies in Part I but later resurrects some way
- the fact Every Chosen One Is An Orphan
- ...until Part II where the Big Bad has the Luke I Am Your Father moment
- ...or till he finds out he (almost) married / shagged his sister
- The X, Z, R, W, Gr overload in villain names.
- panthers, dragons, unicorns or other Mary Sue Pets
- Greek mythology creatures in fantasy. Why can't they come up with something new?
- the hero always falls in love with an important member / leader of La Resistance
- the Dark Lords really could find some more creative name :D
- the fact there's always a semi-villain or complicated character who's a lot more interesting than the Hero
- ...and this cool guy always gets Redemption Equals Death.
- the Evil Empire in always on North or East.
- Damsel In Distress, in any form
- the Warrior Chick With Big Boobs And Useless But Sexy Armor isn't too good either.
- why are all dwarfs greedy and beer-addicted?
- why is the Chosen One always a teen or very young boy?

I totally agree with you Death...Every thing you mentioned is right and I liked the one marked with red, it's funny yet true.Besides why is "The chosen one's" destiny always decided due to an ancient story or myth(you must rescue the world before it is destroyed by the evil blu blu)I mean come on give us a break....

[bravenheart]

Okay I have one. Or two. Old guys who are ALWAYS grumpy. And..hm...dragonslayers. I also am getting sick of powers that have no explanation whatsoever. And I am sick of pure evil. Actually, more accurately, I'm sick of inherent evil. The Devil himself wasn't born bad, to be blunt.

By the way, evil-demon haters should really check out my novel once chapter 13 is up. It'll be a while though.

[ScottyMcGee]

I wrote an entire manual about cliches in fiction, and the first part was fantasy. Should still be here in the forum. Forgot where. Too lazy.

[shadowsmith]

What annoys me is writers using the same type of dragon over and over. The four-legged-two-winged ones. There's other types of dragons people,and i also dislike unpronounceable names.

[Rage]

Mild violence.

[peepingthesmurf]

What annoys me is writers using the same type of dragon over and over. The four-legged-two-winged ones. There's other types of dragons people

I agree! I think Eastern dragons, the long, snake-like ones with no wings are way cooler than Western dragons. :P

[MetallicGryffon]

I hate when there is a series and there is no change between the books, I mean give it a new character or something, when authors keep using the same mythical creatures( dragons, unicorns fairies, ect.), they should make up their own creatures, and lastly, when they have TOO much of a storyline.

[Phi]

Let's see:

- the Doomed Hometown
- the Wise Old Mentor who dies in Part I but later resurrects some way
- the fact Every Chosen One Is An Orphan
- ...until Part II where the Big Bad has the Luke I Am Your Father moment
- ...or till he finds out he (almost) married / shagged his sister
- The X, Z, R, W, Gr overload in villain names.
- panthers, dragons, unicorns or other Mary Sue Pets
- Greek mythology creatures in fantasy. Why can't they come up with something new?
- the hero always falls in love with an important member / leader of La Resistance
- the Dark Lords really could find some more creative name :D
- the fact there's always a semi-villain or complicated character who's a lot more interesting than the Hero
- ...and this cool guy always gets Redemption Equals Death.
- the Evil Empire in always on North or East.
- Damsel In Distress, in any form
- the Warrior Chick With Big Boobs And Useless But Sexy Armor isn't too good either.
- why are all dwarfs greedy and beer-addicted?
- why is the Chosen One always a teen or very young boy?

I totally agree that in every fantasy book ive read there is one of these cliches. People something new for a change!

[peepingthesmurf]

Death pretty much summed everything up, but what about dreams? I mean come on, EVERY fantasy character has dreams about the future or something. It's really over-used.

[saxophone]

how does anyone feel about mixing fantasy with reality. i'm a new writer on my third chapter of my first two books

[electrilad]

I like going to Barnes and Noble on weekends and read the inside flaps of teen fantasy books, counting how many are about 'a girl born with secret powers'. Usually the majority.

Goddamn you girls born with secret powers, you've ruined my once favorite genre.

[J.L.A.Montoya]

I don't like:

1. Young characters (17 and younger) who can do battle with professional (or experienced barbaric) soldiers/warriors.
2. Scantily dressed females who participate in a fight with weapons.
3. Over-sized weapons (unless they're supposed to be big, ie an actual super weapon that cost hundreds of millions/billions in tax payers money)
4. Stories centered around teenage angst and drama.
5. Talking animals. Talking creature? Sure! But like, a rabbit? No.
6. If there's armor to wear or vehicles to drive, why aren't they maintained?

[Devika_globejotter]

Most fantasy novels these days survive on some very clichéd things and the thing is, they manage to sell despite their obvious annoying-ness. To name a few:


VAMPIRES: I swear, if another book that appears on the shelves is something even vaguely vampire-related, I will scream :mad:
Orphans: The main guy/girl will always be an orphan. With no one to talk to, no one to come home to... sheesh! The era of orphans, is over.
Tragic pasts with horrible memory flashes: same as above


People need new ideas...and fast!

[lostbookworm]

One, people dieing, then coming back to life. (Die Harry Potter, just go off and die!)
Two, preaching on about the moral of the story.
Three, the character turning out to be a relation of the villian. (The Magic Thief.)
And last but not least, stories just so messed up that I can't understand them. (I'm looking at you, Dark Materials Trilogy!)

[Spacepirate]

Prologues:

Starting with a woman, holding a baby, running through the woods when it's raining. Something is following her OR she doesn't have much time left or energy.

As with all woman, she decides to trip over due to her clumsiness. Alas! Our heroine gets up even though she is "drenched with mud". THINK OF THE BABY!

She then proceeds to see a faint light. Is she imagining it? Oh, it's getting colder. Damn this woman for not brining thermals. She follows the light, and runs up a hill.

Said light comes from a lighthouse, a school, a church, a secret organisation.

It's very dilapidated and there are big rusting gates that won't open. The woman collapses next to gate trying to get inside. Then there's a heartfelt moment when the door opens but the woman dies, leaving a crying baby in the rain.

Her last act is either to give the baby a name... "Name him Bob... after his... father--er." or she puts a letter on the baby. She dies.

"Oh golly gosh!" says the person who now has a baby in her (usually her) hands.

If there is a letter then this nosey woman will have read it and has decided NOT to give it to our strapping, young, (usually male) hero.

END PROLOGUE.

FLASHFORWARD 15 or so years.

:)

[Spacepirate]

Answer to the Thread Title:

Almost everything.

[Kiba]

-The idea that people can wander around wearing some gigantic magical trinket and be completely untouched by thieves, even if they have nobody accompanying them. A GEM-ENCRUSTED NECKLACE WILL GIVE YOUR COVER AWAY THE MINUTE YOU STEP OUT OF THE PALACE.

-Where are the bodyguards for royalty? Tied in to the whole "gem-encrusted magical necklace that thieves DON'T want to steal" nonsense, even kings and princes would have one bodyguard just in case they get outnumbered. There's a lot of potential for a nice platonic relationship between a royal and their escort, yet all I see is "princess gets saved by the hero and now they're MADLY IN LOVE!"

-The gods being vaguely perfect HUMANOIDS with no real personality. I have an ill-tempered giant jaguar for my novel's sun-god. While he is good, most people would wet themselves if they saw him coming because he's a giant jaguar. Where is the unforgiving desert sun-god, whom people keep happy just so he doesn't burn everything to a crisp? The god of the afterlife who's just doing it because none of the OTHER gods wanted to get their perfectly manicured hands dirty, whom people associate with being dutiful and mature? The compassionate moon-god who felt bad that mortals hated nighttime and became/created a source of light for them? But no, it's always "the sun-god is perfect and the death/night god is scary."

I also have a problem with how the gods in most stories don't really DO anything besides give the protagonist prophecies or special trinkets or what have you. That was the only problem I had with Tamora Pierce--everything else was great, but then all she had was a cookie-cutter pantheon that was tweaked a bit for different countries. I understand that the focus is mostly on the humans (as most stories are), but still. Give your gods personalities, people. Show what they do for the normal people while the Chosen One is saving the world.

-How culture clash is always a Very Bad Thing. Can nobody who's not totally on the protagonist's side just deal with it, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone? Most cultures and religious systems have very similar morals--treat people with respect, help the needy however you can, and try not to blaspheme against your god(s). But again, all we have in most stories are "KILL THE HEATHENS!!1" and "LOL WE'RE BETTER THAN YOU!"

[Bowie20049]

-How culture clash is always a Very Bad Thing. Can nobody who's not totally on the protagonist's side just deal with it, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone? Most cultures and religious systems have very similar morals--treat people with respect, help the needy however you can, and try not to blaspheme against your god(s). But again, all we have in most stories are "KILL THE HEATHENS!!1" and "LOL WE'RE BETTER THAN YOU!"

Well most of the fantasy stories are based on a medieval-like world, which brings the crusades to mind. Also, it isn't very different from the world today as people still don't take other cultures seriously. Culture clash would bring in a lot of good, juicy drama to the story.

[Kiba]

Well most of the fantasy stories are based on a medieval-like world, which brings the crusades to mind. Also, it isn't very different from the world today as people still don't take other cultures seriously. Culture clash would bring in a lot of good, juicy drama to the story.

Still, there are lot of OTHER ways to bring nice, juicy drama into a story. The culture/religion excuse is done way too much, and some people don't even state WHAT the other culture does that's so horrible/ridiculous. I did a culture guide that talks about conflict that DOESN'T involve "KILL THE HEATHENS" or "MUST CONQUER EVERYTHING."

[Bowie20049]

Yes, it doesn't have to involve killing, but there could easily be nonviolent tensions, use of racial slurs, etc. It brings the world to life since there is no place that is completely tolerant of other cultures.

[Kiba]

I also hate how most people don't focus on how vital trade is--between two countries, and different regions of the same country--even with those sprawling cities everyone uses for plot purposes. Sure, they make a throwaway mention to ships from Country A at the docks, but nobody ever writes a story where "If Country A stops trading with us, half the country's going to starve. We need to stay on their good side, even if we hate their king." Or: "Country B is robbing A's grain ships?! WE need them to feed half our country! B IS GOING DOWN."

In short: Everyone wants to SAVE the world, but I'm pretty sure nobody cares about RUNNING it. I know most fantasy deals with escaping the real world, but it's getting boring to read the same plot and characters with different flavors.

Hence, the royalty in my novel are only saving the world because the sooner that's out of the way, the sooner they only have to deal with trouble at home.

[Carraka]

-goes to look for Kiba's novel-

No?

-sad-

Anyway, I mostly come to this thread to see if EC has any elements that "drive you mad." So far it's okay. Except for the talking animals, but then again, my animals are a species I made up. So there.

What annoys me? More specifically, what annoys me, but hasn't yet been mentioned? Wait a minute, I posted here on the first page! I had forgotten. I guess I'll just add that I don't like early flashbacks. But that's a general problem, not just confined to fantasy novels.

[Kiba]

My novel's first chapter should be done in a couple of days. I have portions of it in three different notebooks, so keeping track of which part is where gets a bit confusing sometimes.

Flashbacks are all right for me as long as people use them as character-building/revealing moments, not plot devices.

[Izanagi]

I'm a huge fan of fantasy, but I think that even some of the Cliche things in fantasy can be done right if handled well.

Take for example, the mentor cliche, where the hero always gains a mentor that teaches him everything? Ever read Night Angel Trilogy? Azoth becomes his student early on in the trilogy. The classic Mentor Cliche. But with Durzo, the entire thing is turned on its head because he is a total jerk to him. Is that what it takes to make the Cliche interesting? Twist it? It worked for me. I hated, yet liked the character at the same time.

But the chanting spell thing grates me mostly, or the classical Magical Sword that is overpowered. I can forgive it, but it makes me sigh everytime.

Izo.

[Weirdside]

Right now, anything with vampires (even more so if spelled vampyres). Just overly silly language, anything with "modern farm boys finding out they're magical," magic without costs bugs me a lot too.

[Syn]

I agree with a lot of what's said here, but IMO it expands to movies and video games as well as books.
I really dislike The Chosen One premise. I believe that heroes are made and not born. And I also dislike when 4 people go out to save the world, while the most powerful fighters and wizards (and such) just tell them that they're the only ones that can do it. And usually by going to four different sides of the world and collecting four crystals that are guided by powerful guardians (maybe dragons), that, when combined, give incredible power to the chosen one, so that he can finally kill the evil that had in the past always been just sealed off.... you get the point.
I don't like that.
but I do agree with this:
I'm a huge fan of fantasy, but I think that even some of the Cliche things in fantasy can be done right if handled well.
There can only be so many reasons for wars or to save the world. It's how you handle it that matters.

[ManyIdeas]

-The Chosen One Prophecies
Damn I hate them! -Stamps cliche until dead- At least give a reason why this guy/girl is the Chosen One! Not just 'Oh let me pick a name from my lucky dip! Are lucky winner is *Insert really wierd unpronoucable name here*. Good luck trying to get me to by that! Paolin is very guilty of this one!

-Unlimited Power
Yes! I hate it too! It may seem like my own novel has this, but it doesn't! Like my main charrie is useless without a weapon, and his health affects his powers (or proffessionaly, God Authority), and depending on were you are (Especially for Azzy, since he uses the Celestial EMS, being in front of a hill does not help!) chances how efficant the God Authority is.

-Shape Shifting on the spot
I hate it. No-go-there!! If you can just think 'I wanna be a rabit!' and BAM! Your a rabit, I hate it. In my work, you need charms if you want to transform! And guess what else?! Zodiac Type people! Zodiac Type! You can only have 12 transformations to suit the Zodiac and your own personality! Why? Its a limitation! Lose one charm, lose one transformation!

-Evil=Ugly
Hell no! Check out my antagonist! Sexy beast! Throws the best parties in Reality! Yummy mummy all around, if it wasn't for the sadistic-ness. And guess what? She's a woman, but that doesn't make me sexist! My antagonist doesn't wear skimmpy armour either. Dress indoors, appropriet clothing outdoors. Seriously people! Less ugly more lovely! It makes it fun (if) when you kill them off in the end ;)

-Character Devolopment
Fantasy needs more of this. If its a main character, sub or just a bartender, they all need development! They all need goals! And try to come up with something funny and awesome! I have two Gods called Benzaiten and Susanoo, and they call each other by opposite sex pseudonym! I haven't seen that before!

-Heaven-based Countries
They all seem to be Greek or Japanese and stuck in the past and WAY to Idylic for a fantasy setting! Go nuts. Make it crazy. If its got technology, make some of it bad! Weapons of war and mega-dangerous could-be viruses?! I've got Helicopters in my Heaven! Yep, you heard me, Helicopters and Jets. In Heaven. Used by anatgonist. To shoot. The f***. Out of main charrie. Because Heli/Car chase scenes in heaven, are awesome!

Will edit soon :D

[Bowie20049]

If you go out a bit more, you'd realize that Sexy = Evil these days. I think it represents more of a lustful side of evil. If you go to the movies, the sexiest, classiest person is most likely the evil one.

Too much character development is unneeded. If you try to develop everyone from that random guy from down the corner to the old woman who lived in a shoe, you'd have a very hard to follow story.

Unlimited power with or without limitations is still unlimited power.

It's funny how you "hate" many of these cliches yet you also admit to utilizing them while trying to justify them as well.

[ManyIdeas]

What is this, an interigation? :D (joke)
And I do go out a lot >> Its not my fault I can't be bothered to explain it all, and I've seen a few people use their own works as examples, so whats wrong with me doing it?

[Rage]

I dislike anything that doesn't sound slightly believable, I can live with a bit of Marvel science. But when it's a completely new fantasy world were you can shoot flames out your arsehole for no reason at all, no. :sarcasm:

[ManyIdeas]

I dislike anything that doesn't sound slightly believable, I can live with a bit of Marvel science. But when it's a completely new fantasy world were you can shoot flames out your arsehole for no reason at all, no. :sarcasm:

hahaha! God you make me laugh sometimes! It would be funny if someone could pull that off, though :D

[Weirdside]

I'm sick of farmboys, silly dialog, strange sex scenes, and weak magic systems.

[Alice Glitterhorn]

Where the hero/heroine has some awesome power, but they hate having it and it makes everyone afraid of them. And then they meet the love of their life, and by the end of the book/story that magical power just disappears.

Also, dragons, farmboys who are suddenly awesome with magic/swords, cheesy villain names (Darken Rahl, anybody?), and girls who think they're sooo tough (I know that's kind of weird, since it's supposed to be getting away from the damsel in distress thing, but there seems to have been an explosion of it lately and I think it's annoying as hell).

[Jack]

and girls who think they're sooo tough (I know that's kind of weird, since it's supposed to be getting away from the damsel in distress thing, but there seems to have been an explosion of it lately and I think it's annoying as hell).

I know what you mean. There's suddenly been a massive burst of writers that are attempting to peel away from the whole damsel in distress role that are in turn creating a NEW cliche. :rolleyes:

[Bowie20049]

I personally prefer damsels in distress over tough ones. Hell, I'd rather have a combination of DiD and tough girls

[Faust]

The same ending of good over evil is annoying

[Anira]

When it becomes REALLY predictable because of all the fantasy clichés.

[Bowie20049]

The same ending of good over evil is annoying

How bout not-quite-good winning over not-quite-evil?

[Faust]

Now that is the type of book I like.

[SapphireSeaBird]

Happy endings... I know they're not exactly cliche, but in my opinion, the books with the endings that make you cry are the best, hands down.

[Rapsca]

Any fantasy fiction story, and I've read several, that contain sex, especially gay sex, are real turn-offs.

[Lykaios]

Any fantasy fiction story, and I've read several, that contain sex, especially gay sex, are real turn-offs.

Guess you wouldn't like A Game of Thrones by George R R Martin, then. *sadface*




Best
Fantasy
Book
EVER

[Kiba]

How bout not-quite-good winning over not-quite-evil?

In my novel, it's "good-but-not-necessarily-NICE winning over unifying-the-world-is-great-but-conquering-everyone-isn't-the-best-way-to-go-about-it."

That's another thing that annoys me--just because you do the right thing doesn't mean you have to be a saint.

[Matty Lee]

Cannot happy endings make you cry? Cannot the majesty of victory over such immense odds not render you as inconsolable as the greatest tragedy, with joy instead of sadness.

Oftentimes nowadays I'm finding myself more affected by happiness than sadness, so that's just my bias.

[crayons932]

I know there are many but I can only think of one at the moment:

When the fantasy writer always feels its necessary to just get rid of the parents at the beginning. I mean, I know these are all (mostly) written for kids but A. You don't need a kid as the main character and 2. Even if the kid is the main character, it doesn't mean that they can't have parents.

I mean EVERY SINGLE BOOK. It's they are an orphan, or their parents just ignore them, or they run away, OR SOMETHING. I mean, a child can have an adventure with a parent. The usually need guidance from some adult eventually anyways. But the problem is, they always levitate to the no-parents issue in the end to help tie up all the loose ends. It really annoys me.

Anyways, rant over

Edit: WAIT WAIT!!! I have another one. I hate it when the author adds exclamation points in the narration. Like not even with speech; they just have to add it in and it sounds really stupid when I'm reading it.

[Syn]

When the fantasy writer always feels its necessary to just get rid of the parents at the beginning. I mean, I know these are all (mostly) written for kids but A. You don't need a kid as the main character and 2. Even if the kid is the main character, it doesn't mean that they can't have parents.

I mean EVERY SINGLE BOOK. It's they are an orphan, or their parents just ignore them, or they run away, OR SOMETHING. I mean, a child can have an adventure with a parent. The usually need guidance from some adult eventually anyways. But the problem is, they always levitate to the no-parents issue in the end to help tie up all the loose ends. It really annoys me.


Wow you'd totally hate my story-in-development then xD
Though it's kind of the point of it, a great tragedy while he's still young, growing up alone and all that...
But I do see what you mean by that, and I also must admit that I'm not too fond of it either (which doesn't stop me from doing it anyway).
It's almost hard to be original :D

[WritingCat]

Happy endings suck, in my own opinion.

[Zyanya]

When the main character accepts his/her mentor/elder's judgments without question - even if those judgments involve hurting other people. *throws daggers at guilty character*

[Thalion]

The thing that annoys me most in recent fantasy literature is that fairies are the dimunitive winged creatures hiding behind acorns.
Before shakespeare fairies were like elves, and they were often, yes, in touch with nature. But not like the Tinker Bell fairies of modern culture.

[AlextotheAndra]

I have a strong dislike for the fantasy creature falling for the weak little human for no other reason but because they are weak *im looking at you twilight and various imitations* i honestly dont care if its werewolves or talking trees, because someone is weak is not a good plotline for romance!
and also, its getting a little out of hand, yes i am a teenage girl, no i do not find the endless stream of ya romance/fantasy nessisary, infact i would like to date a nice intelligent slightly geeky guy, not some creepy vampire dude

[graystripe79]

I'm just adding on to what crayons932 said. Crayons honey, I love you but honestly? I just dont personally think that it would be......productive for a main character to be always having to lie and fight with their parent(s) about why suddenly their acting strange. (Which most character kids stuck with fantasy issues do.) Plus, the death of a loved one often adds fuel to the fire. You know what I mean? A mythical creature could bug you all he or she wanted but it just wouldn't be as personal if a loved one weren't at stake.

[Juline]

When against all odds the good guy prevails. I mean honestly, good doesnt always end, sometimes everyone gets tortured to death.

[FayGee]

It's such a newbie thing to bump old threads. ^^

[Majyk]

When against all odds the good guy prevails. I mean honestly, good doesnt always end, sometimes everyone gets tortured to death.

It's such a newbie thing to bump old threads. ^^

Okay: Juline, stop bumping old threads; FayGee, that's spam.

[FayGee]

Well I had actually wondered to myself whether or not it was spam, and decided it wasn't. I guess my judgement is a little off. :rolleyes: