Your Opinion: What do we need to do to get you to submit?

[Shaun]

That question says it all. Imelda and I should be crawling with submissions right now. But we're not. We've received three fiction works (two we kept, one we rejected), and five works of poetry (one we kept, four we rejected). That's not that many submissions, especially considering the load of work already here on YWO that is eligible for submission.

So, what do we need to do to get you to submit? Is there something that isn't clear in the guidelines? Are you scared? What? Why aren't you submitting? We want to know so we can make things better (or something like that). Just tell us why you aren't submitting!

[Starry]

Well, I know that plenty of us are too busy with our novels and other non-writing-related stuff to come up with anything to submit (or at least that's my excuse :] ). But really, Shaun, you keep talking about how much stuff there is on the forum that you want to put in the mag. If you're this desperate, go ahead and tell the people what you want them to submit. I'm sure that if you tell them they have a decent chance of getting in, they're going to be more likely to submit.

And yes, the guidelines for submitting are a bit confusing, especially the ones about "donating" your work for minors, but I don't think that's the main problem.

[Shaun]

I think we're going to edit the guidelines to make them a bit more simplistic.

My two problems with telling people what to submit are:
1. Editors don't do that, generally. And if they do, it's a one-in-a-million thing.
2. What's to get people to submit anything on a whim if I'll just cave in and run around telling people to submit?

I mean, I'd like it if people would just submit so we can have a huge list of things to go through rather than having to go tell people personally to submit a certain piece. That's how it's supposed to work. And this is a great opportunity for people.

[Rafael Domination]

How about making it so that the points system don't apply to the submissions for SBS. Then, without the cost barrier, people might be sending more stuff in. (I know I would. I've got several Wolfgang short stories being developed right now. Just a question, if I release a non-canon short story to the public, that won't affect the publication of my novel, right?)

[Shaun]

We might be able to arrange something where you get half your points back if you submit a work to SBS, but I don't think it would be fair to make them free because how would you monitor that? You can't force people to submit once something gets critted. But I might be able to work something out with Andy I think.

Explain more what you mean by the stuff in the parenthesis: public how?

[Rafael Domination]

Yeah, the half-point thing sounds nice.

Oh, and I mean, what if I post a submit a short story on the net or via the magazine? Will the publishers I hand my book too consider that a no-no even if the short story isn't part of the book?

[Shaun]

Yes and no. Most publishers probably won't care too much about it. You don't even need to mention that it's online initially. If it's on a site like YWO, that's not a problem because they'll understand that this is a critique service. If it's on a blog, most likely nobody would care. Some publishers are anal, but some of the big SF/F publishers generally are pretty nice about it. Just so long as it isn't from the novel itself (and if it is, simply tell them "I put up this chapter for free online" and let them know about it; as I said, most of the big SF/F publishers actually encourage authors to post excerpts of their work, though generally they recommend you do that AFTER you have a publishing contract).

I'll talk to Andy about the half thing.

[Crocolyle]

I'm not sure if anyone else is not submitting for the same reasons that I haven't, but I have several. I haven't said anything until now because I didn't want to sound like a negative Nancy.

1.) While publication in this magazine is publication--I wouldn't consider it to be a real achievement, since the pool of writers submitting is less than a dozen.
2.) The magazine is neither well known nor reputable, so therefore I can't really cite it when listing my publication credits on a cover letter.
3.) If I submit something to $B$, I can't submit it anywhere else--making it seem to be a waste of an idea.
4.) If I submit something, because I have not yet fully matured as a writer and since--sorry, but it's true--the magazine doesn't have very high standards, I don't want anything I submit to come back and haunt me. Like I don't want to be an underground lit mag version of Chris Paolini and I don't want my story to be the next Eye of Argon to be read and made fun of at fantasy, scifi, and comic conventions. Nerds snickering at bad writing--that I wrote (I'm all for reading the Eye of Argon allowed. I'm not all for reading my flash story "One Last Time" allowed)--is not what I need for my self-esteem. Almost as bad as when your friend reads your story out loud, with unnecessary zest. I don't need any more skeletons in my closet or severed, magically non-stinking body parts beneath my floorboards.
5.) I'm not sure if my submission would be considered impartially, considering the relatively small size of active members of this writing community.

Because of those (mainly the first three), I probably won't ever submit or at least until all of those points have been remedied, which, everything considered, probably can't. But there are other, more mundane reasons I haven't submitted anything.

1) I don't have a paypal account and don't currently plan on getting one, nor do I want to use my parents'. (that's also why I won't subscribe).
2) I don't want to give much of my personal to a business that I don't consider reputable (once again, sorry).

Unfortunately, I don't have much productive or constructive to offer. I'm just speaking for myself and anyone who happens (I doubt it) to be like-minded. I'm really sorry, but these are my reasons, and I consider them legitimate. I'm not trying to start an argument, picking a fight, or trying to be insulting (I save all that for the debate room, the common room, your blog, the literary discussion thread, and a few other places and had I wanted to do those things I wouldn't have waited to say all that. I am not trying to sound bitter or spiteful. And I don't want to pop anyone's bubbles).

[Shaun]

1.) While publication in this magazine is publication--I wouldn't consider it to be a real achievement, since the pool of writers submitting is less than a dozen.

Quantity does not mean quality. Fewer writers submitting doesn't necessarily mean we're taking crap. We've taken two stories we thought were good stories worth taking, and a poem of equal value. Other stories/poems haven't quite hit the mark for various reasons and we're not going to take a story simply because there aren't a lot of people submitting. That would be unfair to a lot of parties.

2.) The magazine is neither well known nor reputable, so therefore I can't really cite it when listing my publication credits on a cover letter.

It's a publication. It counts, no matter how ill-known. Writers have been picked up by the big boys with less.

3.) If I submit something to $B$, I can't submit it anywhere else--making it seem to be a waste of an idea.

Not true, actually. We are asking for a courtesy period of 6 months after publication where we have the exclusive. You can ignore this if you want and submit elsewhere, or wait six months and submit elsewhere. Most magazines already have this policy (although the big guys tend to have a required 6 month exclusivity clause in the contract, whereas we don't). So you can submit it elsewhere and there is a huge reprint market, not to mention because we would be a small circulation press a lot of magazines will willingly accept reprints from such avenues due to that very fact.

4.) If I submit something, because I have not yet fully matured as a writer and since--sorry, but it's true--the magazine doesn't have very high standards, I don't want anything I submit to come back and haunt me. Like I don't want to be an underground lit mag version of Chris Paolini and I don't want my story to be the next Eye of Argon to be read and made fun of at fantasy, scifi, and comic conventions. Nerds snickering at bad writing--that I wrote (I'm all for reading the Eye of Argon allowed. I'm not all for reading my flash story "One Last Time" allowed)--is not what I need for my self-esteem. Almost as bad as when your friend reads your story out loud, with unnecessary zest. I don't need any more skeletons in my closet or severed, magically non-stinking body parts beneath my floorboards.

If everyone thought like this nobody would ever submit anything. Even the best writers started somewhere, and most of them have improved over time. Very few writers are great from the start, even with practice.

I'm curious why you think we don't have high standards.

5.) I'm not sure if my submission would be considered impartially, considering the relatively small size of active members of this writing community.

If you mean will I treat your submission like any others even though you and I have had arguments? Then yes. If your story is good I don't really care if we've had arguments or crossed lines or bickered with one another. You're not as bad as some people who have ticked me off, clearly, since you haven't been banned. You might irritate me from time to time, and I probably irritate you, but if your story is good it doesn't matter. A good story is a good story. I don't have to like you to like your story :P.

Edit: I actually want one of your stories, but since you won't be submitting it I guess it doesn't matter.

1) I don't have a paypal account and don't currently plan on getting one, nor do I want to use my parents'. (that's also why I won't subscribe).


Yeah, this seems to be a kink a lot of people have, mostly to do with age though. Although, to buy the magazine, now, you wouldn't need paypal for it, thankfully. Dispensing payment for stories is a whole matter entirely.

[Zombified]

If you're on the wall about submitting to the mag, consider this.

You joined the site because you one day want to be published.
Right?

You have the chance now. Right here on the very place where you got started. YWO has given us all a place to call home and now its got the power to show the world what we got.

You've worked hard for this people. Your dream is to be published, why fret about silly little things that don't add up to nothing when your dream is in reach?

Some of you are hesitant because you don't want to give your names out. Well, like any publisher will ask you in the future, you need to to be give a name. Nobody else but Shaun and Imelda are going to know. Not even me. Plus you can write with a pseudonym.

Money problems, well, if you or your parents dont want to get a paypal and Shaun is unable to make checks out to you(which would be a simple solution to paypal) then don't worry about it!
You're work is getting PUBLISHED! Isn't that all that matters?

You all worked hard to be published, why not submit something?
Imagine the feeling of seeing your name, your story in a magazine that people all over could be reading!

I think that one feeling, that one moment of knowing your dream is fulfilled is worth everything else.
So please, won't you submit?

[Shaun]

Payment could also be done as a postal order, possibly. Depending how well the first issue does we may even offer an upfront payment.

And of course, all glowing words, Zomb :P

[Alex]

no offense zomb cause I'm not the one arguing here, but you just gave off the vibe of someone desperate hahah. Like a TV commercial or something =p

[Nyx]

I think people would submit if you guys bugged them alot about it ^^, That's why I did submit.
[And I'm actually serious, you could read around the forum and when you find something suitable, tell the author they should consider submitting.]

[Shaun]

Thank you, Imelda :).

And I'm glad you submitted, Nyx, because you're going to be in the magazine because of it. You sent me a really good poem.

[Starry]

I actually find that really offensive. Shaun and I are incredibly critical people. Nothing will be going into $B$ that isn't of a high quality. We've accepted two pieces so far, but they're imperfect as they are and we're going to work with the authors to fix that. How often will that opportunity be given to you? We're not doing this for silly reasons, we're serious about it and we want it to work and become a recognised thing. Bloomsbury, Harper Collins, Walker, Analog, DC Comics ... they all started somewhere, and they didn't get where they are today by accepting any old junk that was submitted to them.

Imelda, I love that you just got offended that someone called you nice. :]

But anyway, I think one of the reasons I haven't submitted is that, being unable to impartially view my own work, I have no idea if it even stands a chance, or if you guys will start laughing at the act that I thought this was worth being in the mag. Thus my suggestion that you go bug specific people to submit things.

[Shaun]

We don't laugh at submissions (unless it's really bad, but considering I've only seen one story that was so bad it made me laugh on this site I doubt it would get sent to us). We offer constructive criticism on the piece when we reject it.
Besides, part of becoming a published author is getting rejections :P. I have a few, so does Imelda.

[Phantom]

I really want to submit...
The thing is I really suck at critique, so I really don't help when I do it most of the time...
I am also slightly scared... I don't think that my work is good enough with all of the things I've read.

[Shaun]

Well, talk to Zomb. Maybe he can give you some pointers, since he's going to be in the mag (or Tsuki, and if you do poetry, maybe Nyx).

[Shaun]

Raf: You got your wish, I'm announcing it now.