SF & F Canon?

[Shaun]

Hold on, it sounds confusing. For those that don't know what a literary canon is, it's basically a list considered to be official and important that presents all the works that are of literary merit.
So, there is an actual literary canon (particularly and American Canon and a Western Canon and I'm sure a British and European Canon too).
But there is no Canon for science fiction and fantasy!

So how interested would everyone be in helping to develop one? I know Andrew is doing some facebook stuff in regards to groups that are related to this general issue, but I'm interested in trying to actually make a real SF & F canon.

So, whatcha think?

[Carraka]

I'm all for it, as long as the canon includes George R. R. Martin books. (:

[Shaun]

Well, anyone else want to discuss this seriously? I recently did a post on this subject on my blog. So I'm seriously considering trying to create a canon.

[jordanisonfire]

Wait, are they saying Fantasy and SF aren't important genres, whoever makes these canons?

[Shaun]

They are saying basically that SF & F are 'lesser literature', meaning not up to par with the classics or literary fiction.

[jordanisonfire]

That's outrageous! I'll help in any way I can, if you do indeed need help.

[The Doomed Engines]

Why must the only difference be differences in value? Just because they don't have a canon, doesn't mean they are lesser. I can't speak much for Fantasy...but there is a lot of Science Fiction out there that has a real literary purpose. Ray Bradbury comes to mind, Joe Haldeman too.

I think the main issue here is that most science fiction and fantasy novels are written for a younger audience, and the author simply means to entertain. There is little moral, literary value involved. And I'm not trying to demean these genres in any way, I enjoy a good China Mieville or J.R.R. Tolkien book, but that's all I do. Enjoy it. It doesn't provoke thought, stir up anything deeper than what's already on the surface.

But still that doesn't mean there shouldn't be canons... I just sought to explain why maybe there aren't... while it doesn't mean that its a difference in value.

[Shaun]

Science fiction will be the easier of the two canons to do. The problem with fantasy is that it is highly derivative, so it becomes difficult to narrow things down to what is actually influential.
Science fiction, on the other hand, happens to be the most influential of all the literary forms out there. Just look at our highly technologically evolved society--the product of science fiction.
Given that, I am starting to work on a canon. I"m not sure how I'm going to go about it yet though. I might start up a new blog separate from my own--where I originally proposed the idea. That might do well to get people focused. I want a community effort from all sorts of people though, which might be difficult.

[Andy]

Another problem is that there's all kinds of fantasy. There's sword-and-sorcery, mythic, cute little-story fantasy like ones about shoe-elves, horror, zombie stories, plus alternate-history and tales which are a mix of science fiction and fantasy. So, if we're going to make a cannon, we need to decide where to draw the lines.

[Shaun]

Again, to my post. There have to be criteria. There are a lot of subgenres in Science Fiction too. The criteria I presented on my blog pretty much has to apply to all the subgenres. We're going through with it though, but it's a loooooong process. I haven't read everything in the genre...

[jordanisonfire]

Just out of pure enlightenment, can you please tell me the sub-genres for Sci-Fi, Shaun? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just curious about the whole thing.

On a more idiotic topic, I'm on 200 posts. I'm the biggest spammer on the site (Andrew has more posts, but most of his posts are contributory). I'm not proud of myself, I swear...

[Shaun]

You've done crits so as far as Andy and I are concerned you're fine. I'm behind on crits right now. But I am going to do three hopefully this weekend. Andy's, then Carraka's, then that other one that is in there floating around.

As for the subgenres of Scifi, well there are a LOT. I'll just give you the most common ones though, since some sort of overlap onto each other.

Space Opera:
This is divided into two forms. The first is your typical Star Wars. Grandiose, beautiful, high adventure, common fantasy tropes, and generally not very realistic, but still damn entertaining. You can't go wrong with Star Wars :). But that's the gist of the first type.
The second is the more thoughtful type. It's hard to describe. Take the idea of vast interstellar empires like in Star Wars, but rather than things like the Force, or other fantasy-like elements, it simply focuses on interstellar wars, politics, and what otherwise would be real-world issues set in a collection of worlds. Lots of space ships, lots of space battles...etc.
I don't know if I can think of a good example of Space Opera though. A lot of SF uses elements that might be considered SO. Ragamuffin by Tobias Buckell has some very SO things to it. I think the easiest way to think of Space Opera as a whole is "adventure stories in outer space".

Cyberpunk:
Neuromancer by William Gibson basically pioneered this subgenre. The Matrix would also be cyberpunk. Cyberpunk is SF that focuses, usually, on an Earth encumbered with excessive amounts of technology. There are hackers, implants, virtual worlds like the Matrix, cyborgs etc. Generally the world is dystopian in nature--lots of government control or no government control--there are drugs and all sorts of other craziness.

Military SF:
Pretty simple. SF stories set in military settings. Could be soldiers, or even space opera style elements involving grand space battles but with a highly militaristic tinge. Pretty self-explanatory.

Hard SF:
SF that uses realistic science. Meaning, faster-than-light ships generally do not exist, and interstellar empires are usually pretty much impossible. The laws of physics generally apply to everything. This sort of crosses over into a lot of other subgenres.

First Contact:
Novels about first contact with aliens.

Slipstream:
Somewhat like magic realism. Mainstream fiction with a slightly SF element.

Time Travel:
Umm, obvious right?

Near Future SF:
Obvious right?

That's probably all you need. Oh no, one more...

Steampunk:
This is borderline fantasy. Deals with worlds where the combustible engine never existed and the steam locomotive took over. These are really interesting stories because ALL the technology is different.

[jordanisonfire]

I don't know if anyone has ever played Gears of War, but I can't decide which that would fit into...

[Shaun]

From the little that I have seen of it (which was awesome looking, but since it's not on PC I won't ever play it) I would say it's a cross between military SF and horror, a cross genre bit. It has a big military aspect to it as far as I can tell. Maybe a bit of first contact too (the interesting thing about military SF is that it also merges with first contact tales a lot of the time)

[jordanisonfire]

Well, it's basically about, as far as I can tell, a different planet inhabited by humans called Serra, which is currently in a state of Anarchy after a series of Chemical Wars that resulted in Emergence Day, in which the Locust Horde, a massive population of strange aliens or mutations, spring out of the depths of Serra from a network of tunnels that goes through the entire planet. You're basically a soldier who is part of the COG, which are fighting against the Locust Horde. Does that help categorise it?

[Shaun]

Basically military SF/first contact merger. It would likely be categorized more as military SF though since the first contact portion is less important than the military portion. Military SF is really good sometimes. Old Man's War by John Scalzi is one of the best military SF novels I have ever read. Or The Forever War by Joe Haldeman.

[Shaun]

Just adding some news on this. I've started to go through with the project. I encourage EVERYONE to get involved, talk about it, get your friends who are into SF or F to get involved etc. The website is here (http://sffcanon.blogspot.com/). Check it out. It's a blog, so subscribe, get involved in discussion, etc. There's a lot to be done!

P.S.: There are already a couple posts of interest there...

[The Doomed Engines]

Everything by Robert Heinlein should be in it. That's all I can think of right now.

[Shaun]

For anyone interested I opened the discussion on The Hobbit and the possibility of adding it to the canon on the SFF Canon blog. It's in my sig, so come on over and start up a convo!