Problems with the third person perspective.

[Chie'N'Kadath]

I have problems with third person perspectives. More often than not, I write in a first person perspective. This works fine and dandy for me, but I just cannot write in a third person narrative effectively. Or at least I am never satisfied with it. When I write in a third person perspective I have a hard time writing dialogue at all and even when I do it is brief and obvious. I also have serious pacing problems here, as it often speeds up to over 9,000 miles per hour and what should be a 4-5 page story ends up being 1 or 2 with poor description and pacing. In a project I am currently working on, Tiberious, I use a mixture of both third person and first person, although the third person is still narrated by the titular character; the problem I have with third person still applies here.

If anyone has any suggestions as to how to write effectively in a third person perspective, it would be much appreciated.

[Alex]

Well considering my animosity for 1st person, I might be able to help.

1st) It is ok if it isn't dialogue heavy. That being said you shouldn't have to force it, but depending on the story it might not be needed.

2nd) Description... the fact that you say it isn't descriptive enough is worrisome, but I might know your problem. Obviously, 3rd person is different from 1st person. What I think you may try to be doing is describing emotions moreso than surroundings. In 3rd person the emotion of the character is dictated, not by the dialogue, but by the watching of the surroundings, obviously. If you are trying to do this through dialogue, something uncharacteristic of the POV, then I think that might be the root of both your problems.

Again, without reading what you have I can't give an answer either way, but I think you may be trying to employ a few less effective ways to express the main characters emotion.

[Starry]

Really? I'm usually the other way around, I can't write first person to save my life. I think that's mostly because I get really irritated when the author starts saying stuff the character never would. (Of course, there's also the other side, where you get the perfect character's narration, and thus have no clue what's going on-- As I Lay Dying is currently driving me nuts. xP)

Anyway, I think the biggest mistake people make with third person narration is assuming that because you aren't narrating through a character, you have to be objective and only narrate events, rather than thoughts. That might be what's causing your dialogue problems. Just because you're in third person doesn't mean you can't write thoughts, opinions, reactions, etc, etc. You just have to phrase them right.

And the fun thing about third person is that you can go completely wild with description, and still make it fit into the pacing of the story. Don't worry so much about not having enough or having too much-- just go with it and have fun. Write as you, the author, are picturing things occurring, descriptions, dialogue, thoughts, and all.

Hope that helped (or at least was intelligible)!

[Carraka]

I write very limited third-person, which makes me very confused/unhelpful when I critique any other kind of third-person. I write what Shaun calls Author Intrusion, and what Imelda calls over-the-shoulder narration.

Or something like that.

Basically, even though I'm describing thoughts and objects, I only describe through the perspective character -- I only reveal the POV character's thoughts, and I only reveal the setting through the POV's eyes. I think it becomes very similar to first-person, mostly because I used to slip into first-person without realizing it when I wrote my rough drafts.

I don't know what I'm talking about, but if I'm mixing third and first, chances are they're similar enough that you might have some success with over-the-shoulder narration as well.

Otherwise, I don't know how to help -- I'd have to see an example, as painful as it would be to post something that flies at 9,000 mph.

[Starry]

I write very limited third-person, which makes me very confused/unhelpful when I critique any other kind of third-person. I write what Shaun calls Author Intrusion, and what Imelda calls over-the-shoulder narration.

Or something like that.

According to my English teacher last year, the official term for it is "free indirect style." It's a perfectly legitimate writing style, though fairly different from classic third person perspective. Though, if you're having issues switching into normal third person, you can use that (or anywhere on the spectrum between the two).

[Carraka]

According to my English teacher last year, the official term for it is "free indirect style." It's a perfectly legitimate writing style, though fairly different from classic third person perspective. Though, if you're having issues switching into normal third person, you can use that (or anywhere on the spectrum between the two).

Yeah, that sounds more legitimate to whatever term I cobbled together.

[Imelda]

"Free indirect style" is just interesting 3rd person to me. :p

IT'S NOT AUTHOR INTRUSION.

Sorry I can't be any help.

[Crocolyle]

Car, if by "very limited" you mean that the narrator doesn't delve into the minds of the characters, I've always been told that that is third person objective...

Though if the narrator is a minor character (who refers to himself as "I") who may or may not have been present for the majority of the action of the story, that would be considered first person minor pov. Like the narrator largely fills the role of an observer. Examples of this include A Series of Unfortunate Events, The Great Gatsby, The Razor's Edge, etc. I once read a story by Asimov called "Feathered Friend" where the narrator was talking about his an experience of his as an astronaut, but wasn't really present in any of the action of the story. It talked about a guy named Sven and his pet bird... That's another example of 1st person minor.

[Carraka]

By "very limited" I mean whatever starry called it -- I don't know the technical term, and I trust that she knows what she's talking about.

[Starry]

Woohoo! I'm the authority on something!

...or my English teacher is. Whatever.

[SweeneyLovesLovett]

I know! I'm trying reall hard to do it well with a story right now, but the only way I can get emotion is through first person.

[Mercy]

Well, to get emotion through, you can talk about gleams in their eyes, use metaphors and smilies. Just try a little bit at a time. For example, start out with a simple sentence, like:

Martha is happy.

Then add details until it sounds like a beautiful, flowing, emotional sentence. I'm not going to write one of those, because I'm not sure even I can create such a sentence, but it's worth a try. :)

Overall, just practice and practice and practice until your mind and fingers are numb. You'll get better. Experiment. Play around with it. Get the feel of it. If you aren't used to it, it will be harder at first, but I'm sure you'll be fine. :)

Good luck!

Edit: Ah! Doodlebugs! xP I thought I was replying to the post above.....>.< Sorry. @w@

[SweeneyLovesLovett]

That's not what I meant. Let me rephrase: I have trouble getting the emotion i WANT. I can't really get it to make you react. I know how to get their feelings arcoss, I can't actually make it compelling when It's in 3rd person

[Mercy]

Perhaps studying the human psyche might help? Researching the psychological aspects for emotions that are difficult to convey or to make compelling could assist you. ^^;; I'm not entirely sure, now that you have rephrased the question.