Console Gaming

[Alex]

I don't know if anyone cares or knows enough to argue, but do you feel the Wii is a positive or negative part of the gaming world?

[angela]

Honestly, the Wii doesn't really affect me; I have siblings, and they don't always play it anymore. On a general matter, the Wii console can be either, negative or positive. I guess it depends on the people.

This post was totally useless, but I'm not really sure... Are you asking whether it's a bad/good thing for a Wii to be in this world of ours? Or...

[Alex]

That is what I'm asking, and as I'm already surprised I got one reply I'll go up and post a brief segment of my argument.

The Wii is made by Nintendo, the company known for ((arguably)) revolutionizing console and handheld gaming. This is the 7th generation of consoles ((if you want to listen to wikipedia)) and Nintendo seems to have run out of ideas. It is pretty obvious to every and any hardcore video game fan that Nintendo ran out of ideas right around the time of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Since then they have killed a horse, and beaten the bloody thing for every last drop of blood it has had to try and squeeze out sembalnces of activity.

Well, coming into this generation of console gaming in particular they seemingly ran out of weaponry to bludgeon the damn horse with so they needed a new gimick. One that would really show off the kind of economic geniuses the heads of Nintendo really are. Well they accomplished that with their ever-sucessfull Nintendo Wii. Sadly, they forgot to tell everyone that for sales they were sacrificing gameplay and fun for cash, a bold move in economic terms, as they did hit the bank, but they made a system deficient in terms of graphics ((broadcast at max 720 while 360 and PS3 are at 1080)), a system which completley gives up on its fan base which, after the gamecube failure was made up of purely diehards, and a system that targets a demographic of children who are still to young to cross the street on their own.

Let me just say that their is absolutley nothing wrong with that, little kids playing wannabe violent videogames? Sure, why not. The problem is that Sony and Microsoft have caught on to this phenomenon, and what seemed to be the only hope for the semi-hardcore gaming industry has gone to hell. Sony purposely delayed their system so they could add in sixaxis on their controllers, a system which utilizes motion sensitivity to certain tasks in games. Not only is this expensive to produce, but Sony gave up rumble, one of the only things they had outright rights to, to do this six-axis milarchy to follow in the steps of the Wii. Rumors are that now the Xbox and Microsoft's DEV teams are focussing on making a gaming console nearly identical to Nintendo's little child magnet, fitting for a child molester to the level of Michael Jackson.

Like I said, it is tolerable, but not from such a big company, and not when it is this sucessful. Microsoft and Sony developers are leaving to go make more money and do less work producing, quite frankly, shittier games for the Nintendo Wii, and that, in turn, is making other console gaming more and more shitty as Sony and Microsoft now don't have the necessary number of developers to keep up the same standard of hardcore gaming with games like Socom: Confrontation, Killzone 2, Call of Duty 5, Final Fantasy XIII, etc., etc. The only saving grace seems to be that the graphics are as good as they'll get and we can finally start focusing on gameplay again, but that is only a silver lining.

The Wii is ripping away developers from what have become the 'real' gaming companies as Sony and Microsoft affiliates ((Ubisoft, Valve, Bioware, Crytech, etc. etc. etc. I'm not going to name them all)). On top of that they are getting into the Microsoft and Sony Developers heads, as they used cheap development and high sales to equal a good formula of economic sucess, no matter how horrible the games are. PC gaming is slowly becoming the only way to find hardcore players any more as the PS3 is so damn expensive no one wants to buy the bloody thing, the 360 is manufactured like an alcoholic who throws up every few days from being too piss drunk, and the Wii and P.C. are the only acessible options ((although the gaming P.C. is expensive as hell)).

The point is that
1) The Wii is stealing the talented, young and veteran developers
2) The Wii is getting into the comapnies head's, making them turn to the same formula nintendo used
3) It wouldn't be a problem if the games were intuitive and involved anything other than random stick waggling. Why do you need to buy so many atachments for the damn thing if the entire selling point in the early days was imagination, anyway? Why do 20% of Wii users say that they have more fun using a gamecube controller on most games ((just let it be known that it would be higher if most Wii users were old enough to know what a gamecube was)). Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having motion sensitivity?

[ScottyMcGee]

It's like I always say:

When it comes to console gaming Nintendo is the imagination, Playstation is the action, and Xbox is the graphics.

[Alex]

the playstation 3 has better graphics, just sayin' . Yes I am a Sony fanboy, but no one says the Xbox graphics are better, the argument by them is that they are the same, while, if onyl by a few pixels, statistically the PS3 is better.

Nintendo was imaginative in the mid 90s, now with 8th installments of a beaten franchise like mario party, or super paper mario, or trying to remake the magic of mario 64, or the countless mario kart sequels with no real differences ((double dash was a nice idea at least)). And its all mario, just saying. Not imagination, they took a dead horse and raped it up the ass unitl it bled...

[ScottyMcGee]

Is the raped horse an allusion to Zero Punctuation? :P

[angela]

Wow. Never knew people knew so much about game-consoles. :D

[Alex]

I do make many ZP references, but I've never heard Crosshaw talk about raping horses, just beating it senseless, which I have been using from before I heard him thank you very much.

He said they beat the horse until the bloody twitches give off a semblance of activity. I like the overkill type description of beating a dead horse and I love it more when it talks about a company I have slowly started to dislike.

[Shaun]

You know what, as far as I am concerned the Wii is the best console system since the Atari (with the Dreamcast thrown in there for being revolutionary in a time when people weren't ready for it). The fact is that the Wii has done something for gaming that nobody else can do or has tried to do. It has made gaming interactive on a level that requires more than thumping your fingers around. Most of Nintendo's problems is that Third Parties are morons and are still making boring thumb fiddling games for crappy systems like Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 rather than realizing Nintendo Wii's potential for games.

I love the Wii. I love that I can actually swing the controller to play tennis or bowling or baseball or boxing. I know there are other games for it, but since I don't actually own a Wii I haven't played them. But what other system lets you actually swing the controller like you're swinging a real sword? Hmm? The potential of the Wii is almost limitless (except where graphics are concerned, but really, who cares about graphics at this stage? The Wii has decent graphics and functionality that surpasses all the other systems. Graphics is really a pathetic thing to argue about in regards to this generation, because graphics do not make the best machine...).
Don't be bitter than the Wii is outselling both the Xbox 360 and PS3 combined :P. Nintendo can't help that they're the better company :P

[Alex]

They are taking away from competative gaming, not competative persay, but hardcore gaming.

Pong let you do that with the old school atari controller. It really just has come around full circle.

The funtionality is broken like a window hit smack dab in the head with a baseball, on fire. The games aren't as deep, and the replay value isn't there. There is no online compatability on par with anything made after 2000. There is no community aspect at all, even the 360s horrible community trumps that of the Wii because at least it has one.

It isn't a video game console, its a broken virtual reality simulator.

I have yet to have my argument broken, no offense Shaun but all you told me is that you can swing the controller around like a tennis racket, which breaks none of my arguments one bit.

[GeorgeMichael]

Is the raped horse an allusion to Zero Punctuation? :P



:D I was thinking that too :) I love Yahtzee's reviews :P

Anyways...

No, I don't think the Wii is entirely BAD for this generation, I mean sure there is a mountain (and I mean like a fucking MT. EVEREST) of shit games that are like Disney crap (hannah montana games and all that) but when you dig deep enough you will find that the Wii carries some great games that are much more fun to play than any PS3 or Xbox game. The thing about Nintendo is that while they haven't kept up with the new hardware in terms of graphics, they are the only company that seems to realize how important actual Gameplay is to their games,. Keep in mind I'm talking about the company Nintendo and not any of the third party developers. For the wii Nintendo has made at the top of my head Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess, and Wii Sports... and from experience on all consoles I'm going to say that while they don't look as nice as the other two systems I've had more fun in ten minutes of Wii Sports than I've had during an hour of Grand Theft Auto IV or Call of Duty... 4. Nintendo sticks to their gameplay mastery and PS3 and Xbox stick to making explosions of dust look pretty on your screen.






(I have both Wii and PS3 and I love them both... ... so I won't say one is better than the other... ... but I do hate the XBOX that's what should be on trial here :) .)

[Shaun]

They are taking away from competative gaming, not competative persay, but hardcore gaming.

Pong let you do that with the old school atari controller. It really just has come around full circle.

The funtionality is broken like a window hit smack dab in the head with a baseball, on fire. The games aren't as deep, and the replay value isn't there. There is no online compatability on par with anything made after 2000. There is no community aspect at all, even the 360s horrible community trumps that of the Wii because at least it has one.

It isn't a video game console, its a broken virtual reality simulator.

I have yet to have my argument broken, no offense Shaun but all you told me is that you can swing the controller around like a tennis racket, which breaks none of my arguments one bit.

You couldn't do what you can with a Wii on Atari. Good lord, you still needed the joystick on Atari. No motion censors :P.
Agreed, right now there isn't a lot of hardcore gaming on the Wii. Most of that comes from Nintendo's failure to secure third party gaming with past consoles. Hopefully in the next generation they will have that handhold and there will be a lot of new products for the new system.
Online gaming? Have you actually played a Wii? How about the fact that you can play almost every single pre-Wii game on the Wii, which no other system offers (backwards compatibility is not the same, since the backlog of Nintendo games is about 100 times as large). There is an online community, the problem is that they put more focus on that for the DS and that the games which go well for online gaming were eaten up by the Xbox folks last generation. Nintendo's problems have nothing to do with the Wii, but with third parties being idiots. The potential for this system is astounding. It takes gaming to levels that have no been offered in the home before. Yeah, you can go to the fair and play the silly VR game, but that'd cost you a crapload of money and it would suck. The Wii has the functionality that no other system can offer. End of story. The Xbox has no ability to make your body motions involved in the gameplay. You play that crappy Halo game and you still have to flick the buttons with your fingers, but the Wii would let you hold the controller like a gun, duck, bob, weave, and have a closer experience to what is on screen.
Again, the problem with the Wii isn't that the Wii itself sucks, it's that people are ignoring the Nintendo for its potential, kind of like what you're doing :P.

[Alex]

((Shaun, you can play EVERY single PS1 and PS2 game on the PS3. Stop with your no backwards compatability nonsense. Sure the Xbox's backwards compatability is shit, but thats not the case with the PS3))

SSBB completley destroys the Wii's purpose as 1/4 of players feel its better with a gamecube controller. Bravo Nintendo you made a last generation remake with some different characters. I guess its personal preference, but Wii Sports is no where as gripping to me as being down 4-0 on a game of Bitter Jungle on Socom and being 2v5, me and my friend. Telling each other to keep the mic open and to stand our ground. We sit in the bushes, waiting for the gernades and attack, and it happens. As they pick up the bomb I call out on the mic to shoot, and with our silenced weapons we take down the threat.

I tell him to move into position alpha, scared of the enemies hearing our conversation on the proximity chat. We move into position, quickly seeing them moving in a pack towards the base with the bomb, wanting to plant. We both lean out of our corners, taking one down each, before he calls out to drop back. There is 1 minute and 25 seconds left in the round and we have just taken out 3 of the 5 men, both of us low on health we hide, waiting for our enemies to show a weaknes. Eventually they do, scurrying around in the bushes, only to be bombarded with gernades at the first act of movement. He was the one with the bomb.

We run, grab the bomb, and start sprinting for the seals base, planning now to destroy it for ourselves. Little do we know that our enemy is on our trail, I get picked off, leaving one last message to my comrade before I die, that he is behind us. He doesn't stop, however, he keeps running, out of sight, until he reaches the base where he plants the bomb. Now the soldier has caught up with him after picking up my weapon and spare gernades from my dead, mangled corpse and the two have a gunbatte, with the seal eventually winning.

There is no time though, as he has 7 seconds to get to, and defuse the bomb. He starts defusing with 4 seconds left, and he is about to finish up right as the clock hits zero and the explosion takes him out and the seal checkpoint. Mission accomplished and now its time for us to win 5 more rounds ((best of 11 and they were up 4-0)).

Its moments like that that the Wii will never ever give anyone.

[GeorgeMichael]

you know some moments that Grand Theft Auto will never give anyone?

Let me demonstrate :)


Four people are playing Wii in the living room, having soda and chips.

"FUCK YEAH! In your face Jerry!" Louis yells into his friends face. (so maybe it's beer instead of Soda...)

"You're gonna get your ass killed!" Louis replies.

"Look, there goes your body!!! down... down... down..." Robert jumps as he yells the final word after sending Tim flying off the screen.

"Hey, take a shot every time Jerry takes a cheap shot with a fucking item guys!" All three guys take a quick drink and laugh.

"Screw you guys, you all just suck."

THe four friends have fun into the night and wake up after a great night of gaming.


Grand Theft Auto IV edition.

A boy sits alone on his living room couch playing GTA IV with a headset in his ear.

"OH yeah. Yeah take this dude! What the fuck? Who shot me? You fucking NOOB! You're a loser. Hey don't call me a loser, I screwed your mom man! She sucked! Yeah, I went there. What now. Oh yeah, you just got sniped. Am I right guys?"

Over headset "Shut the fuck up dude."

"You shut up faggot, just cause you suck at the game."

The boy gets kicked out of the round and sighs. He looks around, he's still alone, he's having no fun, no human interaction, and he's a loser.





that is why the Wii wins.

[Shaun]

((Shaun, you can play EVERY single PS1 and PS2 game on the PS3. Stop with your no backwards compatability nonsense. Sure the Xbox's backwards compatability is shit, but thats not the case with the PS3))

But that's ALL you can play. Nintendo has a hundred times the backlog as Playstation. Lots more games than PS3 can offer :P.

SSBB completley destroys the Wii's purpose as 1/4 of players feel its better with a gamecube controller. Bravo Nintendo you made a last generation remake with some different characters. I guess its personal preference, but Wii Sports is no where as gripping to me as being down 4-0 on a game of Bitter Jungle on Socom and being 2v5, me and my friend. Telling each other to keep the mic open and to stand our ground. We sit in the bushes, waiting for the gernades and attack, and it happens. As they pick up the bomb I call out on the mic to shoot, and with our silenced weapons we take down the threat.

See, but for me, if I'm going to play a game like that I'd rather be on my computer where I can use a mouse, which is a million times more effective and makes gaming so much better. I hate FPS games on consoles for a reason...they suck. The controllers limit what you can do and I just don't have the time to waste trying to adjust how I play to fit with the thumb fiddling. I can do all that right on my PC for cheaper than it costs to buy a PS3 or Xbox 360 and buy whatever game it is you're playing. And my PC does more things than either of those systems do. Online play for consoles is a truly pointless gesture when PCs dominate that market anyway. Hence why the Wii is more interesting to me. Why should I buy a mini PC that plugs into my TV when I can just use my computer, something I already bought and lets me use a mouse?

Its moments like that that the Wii will never ever give anyone.

The Wii could give that to someone, but even more than what you're describing. You just wasted hundreds of dollars buying a new gaming system when you could have just bought a nice computer and done all that with better equipment...None of that you're describing is new to me. I've been doing that stuff (or used to do that stuff, not so much anymore) on a regular basis for practically free, without a clumsy controller, limited mobility, etc. The Wii offers something NEW. That's why it's appealing.

[Alex]

Trust me, I would be a P.C. gamer all the way, but I can't afford a gaming Laptop that has the R.A.M necessary to play games with the crytech engine and such. And Socom is third person tactical genre, not FPS.

What nice computer costs 500 dollars? My business laptop for school cost me 1200 and it has .5 gig of ram, not even enough to play CS 1.6, a game made in the early 2000s. I would need to shell out alot of money ((3000$ or so)) for a state of the art gaming laptop.

The PS3 is a state of the art console, its not as great as the P.C.s power, I will admit, but this IS a console discussion.

I guess we have to agree to disagree.

[GeorgeMichael]

... ... I'm against the Wii bashing... but I agree with Alex's previous post 100% 500$ Gaming Computer Shaun??? Please tell me where!

[Chie'N'Kadath]

Kadath's take: I am a PC gamer through and through. I cut my teeth on doom. I was brought up by Quake. I trained with Quake 2. I entered manhood with Quake 3. I bonded with Unreal Tournament. I revisited my roots with Doom 3. I had a reunion with Quake 4. I married Unreal Tournament 3. Okay, enough geeky metaphors about how much I love these games. I love the consoles, I really do but the PC will always be the best. I will say that my 'favourite' of the consoles right now is the 360, but I like the PS3 and the Wii too. I think they are all fine consoles and I hate being called a fan boy. I will admit, I dislike cross platform these days. It only detracts from the value of each console, for example, PS3 probably would be a bigger platform for me if it had more interesting 'exclusives' like Metal Gear Solid 4. Otherwise most of the PS3 games I like... I will just get on the 360. I don't own a Ps3 yet as I don't see a reason to, so I just use my friends. If I have the option though, the PC will always be my choice.

Chie's take: I heavily dislike the consoles unless I am playing a game that plays uniquely enough that it just wouldn't be as fun on the PC. That is why I love the Wii. This is why I love games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band. These things wouldn't be fun with a regular controller or a mouse and keyboard. I admit, there are many games I love on the consoles that aren't unique in how you interface with them, I still play hefty doses of old school games like Mario and Goldeneye, but these games can be played on a PC. I only buy a console if it has something really, really unique. That's why my only current-gen console games are Guitar Hero 2-3, Rock Band, and a dose of Wii games.

[Shaun]

See, here's the thing. If you want to have a computer that can play games well, you don't need to spend much more than a few hundred bucks and it will last you for a long while. The good news too is that if you need more power...you just upgrade the hardware. You don't need a new computer very often if you're smart.

And never use laptops for gaming. They're MOBILE computers, not gaming systems. People that use them for gaming are morons. That's what the bulky towers are for :P. You can get a $299 Dell computer and upgrade the RAM and graphics card for $100 bucks and be fine. $399. That's it. Or you could build your own for the same price and choose what goes into it. It's best to buy systems that are more bare-bones. All that pre-installed crap is useless.

[Alex]

Well I need a new laptop for college anyway, and my mom has already said I'm getting a computer, not a car, so I'll milk it out for a good gaming laptop considering I need a new one anyway.

I am playing Team Fortess 2 on the PS3 right now, fun... more balanced for sure, but not like TF1 on the P.C. let me say.

[GeorgeMichael]

Alex... you have TF2 also? I've started playing that and am loving it :) What's your username so I can add you as a friend.

What class is your favorite?

[Alex]

I haven't played much so the balance is still new to me. It depends, if I'm playing control points then engineer obviously.

I like the soldier though as it is right now. I'm a bad spy and a bad sniper, I don't like the heavys ((demo, pyro, etc.)) so the soldier is good for me.

BooksRnot4U is my username.

W00t for Orange Box

[mrfusspot]

I think the Wii is a great thing for the gaming community. Its getting children moving (if only slightly) and its changing the way people look at video games.
Gamers are going to have to listen to less of that "video games are all evil and cause children to murder people" stuff. What murderous ways are Wii Fit or Wii Sports going to teach children? Honestly, what we need is more of that stuff. I'm sick of hearing that video games cause people to grow up and shoot schools.

[Alex]

the only people the Wii is teaching are video game companies that making half-assed video games is ok, and teaching soccer moms new ways to waste their money.

I'm sick of ignorant people who say video games cause people to grow up and shoot things, but if every game becomes like the Wii then there won't be any more video games. Wii Sports is just a buggy game, its not a video game, its a game. A video game has aspects of the first, a video. Most video games have some storyline, have some plot, have some character development, and most of all promote community ((at least the good ones)). I don't even if Wii Sports has online capability, and sorry but if we consider waggling a stick around aimlessly to be 'active' then we just took the 'Bar of Standard' and threw it into the fucking ocean.

[mrfusspot]

the only people the Wii is teaching are video game companies that making half-assed video games is ok, and teaching soccer moms new ways to waste their money.
You must not have played any games on the Wii. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Super Smash Brothers Brawl, etc. They are great video games and they exist on the Wii. Metroid lasts for at least 20 hours, if you don't plan to go for 100% completion. SSBB is an amazing party game, its great to play with friends. Its got plenty of play time.

Wii Sports is just a buggy game, its not a video game, its a game. A video game has aspects of the first, a video. Most video games have some storyline, have some plot, have some character development, and most of all promote community ((at least the good ones)).
If we are going by that logic, a lot of stuff before the NES were not video game, rather just a game. Wii Sports does have video in it, otherwise it would be just "Sports" and you'd run outside to play it. Sims doesn't have a plot, Spore doesn't really have a plot. Sim City doesn't have a plot, and yet these are all considered video games by the video game community. You know why? It is because they are games that have video on top of them. And wait? Promote community? Maybe MMO's, yeah. Things like Halo or Gears of War, which received high marks by almost everyone in the gaming world, don't promote community. Community implies that people are working together or being friendly with each other. Blowing everyone's face off just 'cause they looked at you funny is not community.
I don't even if Wii Sports has online capability, and sorry but if we consider waggling a stick around aimlessly to be 'active' then we just took the 'Bar of Standard' and threw it into the fucking ocean.
Wii Sports doesn't need online capability. Wii Play doesn't need online. A video game does not need online play, because otherwise console games before the PS2/Xbox would be what? Fancy interactive movies?
Sure, people don't really play Wii Sports as if they were playing the sport itself. But that is what is to be expected. You don't give someone who's lived their whole life in a wheelchair crutches and expect them to walk like everyone else. You also don't give a video gamer a game about tennis and expect them to play like a tennis star.

[Alex]

Well your saying its ok to do the same thing a system in the 80s did? I thought we had advanced past that. For that time it was revolutionary, now? Not so much.

SSBB is not a great game. Its a decent fighting game, but it has such an aura around it for how good it was before, coupled with the fact that outside of Metroid Prime ((a series that they better be truthful about closing, they need to stop reusing the same ideas)) and No More Heroes there are no amazing games. Everything else IS mediocre, its a system targeted towards toddlers and soccer moms, and if thats what we want more video game companies to go to then you, my friend, are a heretic.

Community implies togetherness, and I never singled out the 360. I think that is where the 360 misses, actually. I felt Gears of War ((which does have user made clans, despite the puzzling lack of in-game clan service)) was only missing that. If it had had that it would've been the Socom series of the next generation. Community doesn't mean working together for a greater good when you are talking about video games ((outside of freeware designers, but who cares about them =p)), it means competition. As retarded as the little 8 year olds on Halo are, at least ((if they are good, and most of them are)) then it inspires competition. I'm sorry if I don't consider wagging a stick around as fast as I can against a buddy of mine 'competition'.

You seem to me like a nintendo fanboy by the way you defend your system. No one else could possibly defend a series that has been out for over a decade. You know what? I loved Metroid 1 and Metroid 3, that doesn't mean I don't know Nintendo has run out of ideas. Mario Party 10? Final Fantasy is getting killed by sequels and that is one of the better games ever made. Also, games like Sim City ((and any RTS game in general)) don't need a storyline or plot because they have a point. To give the feeling of what it would be like to destroy a city you created, or, adversely, to create your own universe and make it prosper. If you dare to say that Wii Sports has the point of making you feel like a real baseball player then I will really laugh because

A) MLB 08: The Show does it better ((from an objective standpoint, of course))
and
B) At such a young age ((I'm asusming most people playing Wii Sports are 8, because that is the average age of the owners)) you aren't soooo out of shape that you can't play little league freaking baseball. This is in no way a knock on baseball because I love baseball, I adore it, I crave it like meth. ((I know people will read it and say 'thats unhealthy' and to them I say fuck you)).

You say you're tired of the notion people have that video games 'cause tendencies to kill, so you want to rid the video game industry of that influence? Isn't that completley contradictory and rather selfish of you. "I'm tired of people saying video games make me violent, so I want all violent video games to turn into Wii Sports." Guess what, the video game industry was MADE on games like Leisure Suit Larry, Zelda, Mario ((fine, the action is all cutesy but its still action-violence)), Doom, and Quake.

You can count on your fingers the number of truly decent video games that blasted thing has ((Metroid III, SSBB as average as it is, Super Mario Galaxy as overused as the concept is, No More Heroes which is the only real reason to buy it, Okami, and the sixth is Zach and Wiki)). Now let me just say that I am tired of the same idea being sent through the meat grinder over and over again. SSBB had the potential to be a truly great video game, but when 27% of the users of said game prefer to use a last generation controller ((which defeats the purpose of the Wii in the first place)) then your console has failed.

Again, I praise Nintendo for what they have done for their company because they have found away to please furious fans just enough to squeeze some more money out of them before they fall into a black hole and die. That being said, its not good for the industry because it is

A) taking away developers ((if I am a new developer why wouldn't I go to a renowned company like Nintendo to do half the work. The fact that the games are aimed towards little children make it easier to get away with worse graphics, shitty storylines, and just about everything else)).

B) Taking away buyers from the 'real' next-gen consoles ((again, this is an objective statement, but I have an objective brain, unlike Nintendo fan-boys who would buy a box filled with dog shit if it was sent to them by the precious)) and

C) Showing the other companies that as long as they include the slightest bit of action they will be deemed huge sucesses no matter how little work they put into their games. Six Axis was a kneejerk reaction to the projected success of the Wii and it failed for Sony, and in the process they slowed development, took out the vibration effects that have been standard in gaming for years ((I know I don't miss it much, but outside of a few games such as Resistance, Assasin's Creed, and upcoming Confrontation it has literally no purpose)). Then the recent knews ((which has been confirmed)) of Microsoft taking a chunk of its money from developing ((which they need with their buggy 20% failure rate-still system, Elite excluded)) to look into Wii-like endeavors.

Also, what you said at the end of 'not needing good online capability' is completley twisted. While the industry moves forward isn't it up to the companies to? There was no online compatability before ((on console games)) because the technology wasn't there. So just because we didn't have the wheel many many many years ago we should have cars without wheels? Thats a very flawed argument. The introduction of online play into last ((and now current gen)) consoles is the reason the PC gaming industry has slowly been dying ((as sad as it is to see)).

[J.L.A.Montoya]

I think the Wii is a positive step in the gaming world. It's like, the wagon. Eventually, it'll evolve into a Model-T, and continue growing from there. It's the first step in an interesting direction.

I don't see any negatives with the Wii. It's simply the first step toward virtual reality, which would be kick-ass (especially WWII games; scary as hell, but since it's a game, it's fun!). Virtual bowling would suck, though, but other than that, it's a good idea. They need to continue developing it further and further.

Oh, and if anyone says WWII games are a bad influence; What's wrong with shooting Nazi's?! :laugh:

[Alex]

WWII games are a bad influence because play too many of them ((and there are waayyyyyyyy too many of them)) and you'll become incapacitated. Theres nothing actually wrong with them, they just all seem to have the same cliché, indestructo-man hero, and are only popular to relive America's last moment of true pride.

A game about Vietnam, done right, could be the best war game ever made. They aren't done because it wasn't a good time in American history ((the same reason they never made a game of you having to be a banker during The Great Depression =p)). The fact of where it took place, the weaponry, the shear questionable descisions that would need to be made. It could be really incredibly jarring, and thats great.

Also, if you want to know why the Wii is a bad influence then look up =]

[J.L.A.Montoya]

WWII games are a bad influence because play too many of them ((and there are waayyyyyyyy too many of them)) and you'll become incapacitated. Theres nothing actually wrong with them, they just all seem to have the same cliché, indestructo-man hero, and are only popular to relive America's last moment of true pride.Good point. I've always wanted a realistic war game.


A game about Vietnam, done right, could be the best war game ever made. They aren't done because it wasn't a good time in American history ((the same reason they never made a game of you having to be a banker during The Great Depression =p)). The fact of where it took place, the weaponry, the shear questionable descisions that would need to be made. It could be really incredibly jarring, and thats great.

I agree. It'd be scary as hell falling into a trap the Vietcong made...


Also, if you want to know why the Wii is a bad influence then look up =]But the Nazi's are evil...Not the German's, the Nazi's. Nazi's happened to be German, but those who disagreed with the Nazi's are perfectly...human.

Let me rephrase that anyway:
What's wrong with shooting Nazi's in a video game?!:laugh:

[Alex]

I'm tired of all the European stuff.

If we want to do the World War's right then we'd make a WWI game about the French, featuring the Maginot line.

What would be really good is to have a game from the German prospective. The life of a soldier who happened to fight in both World Wars, experiencing the economic downfall, the rise of Hitler, all of it, not just the war.

If we do it from an American prespective we need to be fighting in the Pacific, and that, quite frankly, is the only reason I'll be buying Call of Duty: World at War

[J.L.A.Montoya]

They need to make a Pacific Theater where you can choose from two forces:

Ground Forces
Navy/Air Forces

I would love to fight in Midway off of the Yorktown, then storm Iwo Jima, then help sink the Musashi. Or even man the Bridge of a battleship, or a gun. Or a tank, or the rear gun of a torpedo plane.

I watch a lot of the History Channel's "Battle 360" (sponsored by Enterprise: We'll pick you up!). That series-documentary is awesome, focusing on the story of the aircraft carrier Enterprise.

[Rafael Domination]

I would really like to contribute, but I have no idea about anything related to games.

All I can say is: whatever happened to good ol' chess? :D

[mrfusspot]

SSBB is not a great game. Its a decent fighting game, but it has such an aura around it for how good it was before, coupled with the fact that outside of Metroid Prime ((a series that they better be truthful about closing, they need to stop reusing the same ideas)) and No More Heroes there are no amazing games. Everything else IS mediocre, its a system targeted towards toddlers and soccer moms, and if thats what we want more video game companies to go to then you, my friend, are a heretic.
"Amazing" is subjective. Looking at games that scored over 80%, we've got 27 games. http://www.metacritic.com/games/wii/scores/ (Metacritics Top Wii Games). That's not a dismal amount. And last time I checked, I didn't have 27 fingers. Ten of those are not geared directly toward the young gamer demo. Considering the amount of people that thought these games were above average, I wouldn't say that Nintendo is telling people it only wants to be for toddlers.

You seem to me like a nintendo fanboy by the way you defend your system. No one else could possibly defend a series that has been out for over a decade. You know what? I loved Metroid 1 and Metroid 3, that doesn't mean I don't know Nintendo has run out of ideas. Mario Party 10? Final Fantasy is getting killed by sequels and that is one of the better games ever made. Also, games like Sim City ((and any RTS game in general)) don't need a storyline or plot because they have a point. To give the feeling of what it would be like to destroy a city you created, or, adversely, to create your own universe and make it prosper. If you dare to say that Wii Sports has the point of making you feel like a real baseball player then I will really laugh because
Sure, call me a Nintendo fanboy. Forgive me for enjoying their games and the systems. But being a fanboy has nothing to do with defending an old series that is actually still GOOD. Just 'cause its got 20 years (or close to it) of age, doesn't mean that the new games don't deserve their praise.
I never said, nor would I ever say, that Wii Sports shows people what it is like to play in MLB. Everyone knows that it isn't, and people who say otherwise are fooling themselves or severely mentally damaged.
A) MLB 08: The Show does it better ((from an objective standpoint, of course))
and
B) At such a young age ((I'm asusming most people playing Wii Sports are 8, because that is the average age of the owners)) you aren't soooo out of shape that you can't play little league freaking baseball. This is in no way a knock on baseball because I love baseball, I adore it, I crave it like meth. ((I know people will read it and say 'thats unhealthy' and to them I say fuck you)).
Yes, MLB 08 shows how the game is played better, but, contrary to my previous response, Wii Sports actually shows how to hit. It gets you better into the action of swinging at the right time, whereas MLB 08 shows you how to press a button at the right time.
Yeah, a lot of the kids could head out and play real baseball, you've got me there.
A) taking away developers ((if I am a new developer why wouldn't I go to a renowned company like Nintendo to do half the work. The fact that the games are aimed towards little children make it easier to get away with worse graphics, shitty storylines, and just about everything else)).
If you are a new game developer willing to sell yourself to a company just to have to work less on a game, maybe you shouldn't be developing mainstream games. Popcap or similar companies would probably be really happy to accept your application. Real game development companies would be trying their hardest to get a game they are proud of out to whatever company would accept it. A developer does not want to spend ten hours a day to produce a shitty game. They want to spend as much time as it will take to produce a game that they think is great, a game that they think deserves extremely high remarks. And the "Nintendo aims for kids" is such an old argument.
B) Taking away buyers from the 'real' next-gen consoles ((again, this is an objective statement, but I have an objective brain, unlike Nintendo fan-boys who would buy a box filled with dog shit if it was sent to them by the precious)) and
The only reason Nintendo is getting more sales on their console is because of the price. It has nothing to do with the fact that the games are more "kiddy", because parents who are going to buy their child a console are not going to do any research. They look at price and price only. If the 360 was the same price, they would be neck and neck.
C) Showing the other companies that as long as they include the slightest bit of action they will be deemed huge sucesses no matter how little work they put into their games. Six Axis was a kneejerk reaction to the projected success of the Wii and it failed for Sony, and in the process they slowed development, took out the vibration effects that have been standard in gaming for years ((I know I don't miss it much, but outside of a few games such as Resistance, Assasin's Creed, and upcoming Confrontation it has literally no purpose)). Then the recent knews ((which has been confirmed)) of Microsoft taking a chunk of its money from developing ((which they need with their buggy 20% failure rate-still system, Elite excluded)) to look into Wii-like endeavors.
The Six Axis was something that Nintendo expected Sony to do anyway. There were rumors and speculation that Sony had stolen previous designs of Nintendo's, so they held out until Sony had released a controller before they unveiled theirs. And the vibration was never really needed. It was a nifty feature, sure, but did it actually have any use while playing the game?
Also, what you said at the end of 'not needing good online capability' is completley twisted. While the industry moves forward isn't it up to the companies to? There was no online compatability before ((on console games)) because the technology wasn't there. So just because we didn't have the wheel many many many years ago we should have cars without wheels? Thats a very flawed argument. The introduction of online play into last ((and now current gen)) consoles is the reason the PC gaming industry has slowly been dying ((as sad as it is to see)).
All I meant by "not needing online" is that plenty of games have gone on to sell millions of copies, been really successful without having online play. Plenty of games have been huge hits without people going head to head with their friend from Honolulu. It is a nice feature, I'll give you that. It is something that most console games are doing these days, yes. But we don't need it in order for the games to actually be good games.

[Alex]

its pretty obvious that in an objective argument neither of us are going to be swayed. I'm not saying Old is bad, I'm saying the same thing over and over again is bad. It shows unoriginality and ((quite frankly)) Nintendo is a very unoriginal company at this point.

The Wii is mainstream, don't tell me the Wii isn't mainstream. The price? Well Wii Fit + the Wii is just as much as PS3 + MGS4 ((and while I'm not a huge thumbsucking lover of the game...))

Its not an arugment, its a fact. It does aim towards children, the average age per owner is either 8 or 9, I forget. The only subjective thing that has been said to this point can't be dismissed so easily.

[mrfusspot]

its pretty obvious that in an objective argument neither of us are going to be swayed. I'm not saying Old is bad, I'm saying the same thing over and over again is bad. It shows unoriginality and ((quite frankly)) Nintendo is a very unoriginal company at this point.

I'm not going to argue either of those points. I'm fairly certain neither of us are going to view the other's view point as a possible alternative.
I do agree with Nintendo being unoriginal. They really do need to move away from their safety nets (Mario, Metroid and Zelda) and make a new franchise.
The Wii is mainstream, don't tell me the Wii isn't mainstream. The price? Well Wii Fit + the Wii is just as much as PS3 + MGS4 ((and while I'm not a huge thumbsucking lover of the game...))
When did I ever say the Wii wasn't mainstream? The only time I mentioned mainstream was immediately followed by non-mainstream companies, and Nintendo was not mentioned. With the Wii Fit, yeah, it's pretty expensive. Not every parent is going to buy them both together though, and that is the majority of people who buy the system for the "exercise" benefits.
Its not an arugment, its a fact. It does aim towards children, the average age per owner is either 8 or 9, I forget. The only subjective thing that has been said to this point can't be dismissed so easily.
Its an opinion. The Wii has loads of non-children games. Not all of them are prize-worthy, no, but they are there. Resident Evil 4 (sure, its a port), Red Steel, Metroid, Bully, and others. The average age issue is because Nintendo isn't getting good third party support (surprise) and is still straying away from online. If more big gaming companies sign up for Wii development, we'll see more "hardcore" games.

[Alex]

all I know that is for now I will enjoy my friends' No More Heroes like no other and pray the Wii DOES get something else for the sake of the gaming community.

I completley forgot about Red Steel on that list of above average games ((I prefer IGN to Metacritic anyway. Metacritic looks at a lot of places that could be biased towards something I am not =p. I like to be right =p)). I'm sure there are probably 2 or 3 more that I forgot about as well.

[J.L.A.Montoya]

I didn't like Red Steel. At all. At least, not the multi-player.

[jordanisonfire]

So what if Nintendo is unoriginal in some ways? Why do they continue Zelda, Mario, Donkey Kong etc.? Cos they're legendary games that've been around since the 80's and they know people will buy them. What would you do if you were in their shoes? Just say: "Oh, we're being unoriginal here, let's take away the game series that everyone loves and lose a load of cash in the process"? I doubt you would. And those games aren't the only thing they're making. The Wii Fit and Wii Sports is what the Wii is best known for. If people only buy the Wii thinking that's the only good thing about it, more fool them.

[Alex]

Oh no, I would milk it for every last bit of money I could make. Its a smart business decision, but its one that is bad for the industry. They have a few stumbles in trying to recreate the magic their big series have. Super Mario Sunshine was one of their attempts to get the success of Super Mario 64 back, oh it sold, but it was a buggy game appealing to the enviromentalist crowd among video gamers.

Its amazing how they can release nearly the same game with updated graphics.

It was just another day in the world of Mario, until.... Bowser attacked.
"Mario, help me," says the ditzy princess.
"I will save you, ocassionally with my twin brother because giving him a different personality from mine would be preposterous."

and so they are off the fight the same slew of enemies while collecting stars...


Tell me if you haven't heard that, oh, I dunno, 8 times?

[jordanisonfire]

Their latest installment, Super Mario Galaxy, was actually very good. I've been playing Mario games since 64 and they've all been different. Wouldn't you say every sequel of a game is pretty much the same as the last one, except with better stuff in it? For example: Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Gears of War, Call of Duty. All Xbox and PS3 games (except Resident Evil, they have the latest one out for Wii now), but still rather the same. I could list more, but you'll get the picture from those few.

[Chie'N'Kadath]

Each console has a negative and positive effect in the gaming industry. Yeah, the Wii is killing sales but that's not a negative thing over all. While in a console war this could leave the odd man out to die, all is pretty much fair in the actual business of a console war. The Wii is kicking butt because obviously people like it. I myself am not partial to any console, I like all of them. I don't have a ps3 yet though. The only gaming system I am partial at all too is the PC. Although my first game ever was Super Mario Bros. 3, I cut my teeth on Doom and was brought up by Quake, so PC has always been my first choice since I'm a hardcore shooter fan.

[Gandalf the White]

Sigh, see I am a hardcore gamer and the wii... It just isn't cutting it. The graphics suck and there are a lot of childish games.(although I do like mario and such) The Playstation has the graphics and the system is amazing but they aren't living up to the capabilities they are possible of. They have no games at all.

Now the xbox has it all... Games, graphics, xbox live. All that good stuff.

Just to let you know, I have all three systems and I would play the 360 over all of them any day.
But I must admit, the wii does have some awesome games. Not to mention it sales more than both the playstation and xbox. So I cannot compare.

[jordanisonfire]

Now that I've started buying games for the Wii, I see how much Xbox games suck. The shooters are just the same over and over, just in different settings. They have barely any good games, besides Oblivion, which is much better on PC. Whereas the Wii may not have as good graphics, but the games aremuch better. If the Xbox attempted something like Super Smash Bros, they'd cock it up, easily. They'd spend loads on graphics and nothing on quality.

[Gandalf the White]

See the good thing about what xbox is doing is that they are going to have the next final fantasy on there consul. Therefore making more money. I am beginning to sway from consuls though and turning towards my pc. I like it better than them all.

[jordanisonfire]

Took them long enough. Ah well, FF doesn't attract me. I played LO which is supposed to be the Xbox version of FF but I couldn't get into it much.

[Gandalf the White]

Yeah LO was okay to me... I have more fun playing some sort of RPG along the lines of FF. I do like oblivion though. I have it on the pc and xbox. What I like about the pc games is that there are so many cheats. But I only use the cheats after I beat the game. Makes it more challenging.

[jordanisonfire]

Same here, to be honest. Plus there's loads of mods, like dragons and stuff.

[Gandalf the White]

Totally man. Ever play any RPG's on the pc besides Oblivion?

[jordanisonfire]

Naw. Was gonna play COD4, that kinds counts as RPG if it's online, but my video card wasn't advanced enough. Teh suckorz.

[Gandalf the White]

Dang that does suck. I went out and bought myself a video card. 512mb of dedicated memory. There's plenty for a game. I started playing, "the orange box" a few days ago. It love it. Its challenging. I want to get the new diablo 3 when it comes out...

[GeorgeMichael]

[QUOTE=Gandalf the White;44645]See the good thing about what xbox is doing is that they are going to have the next final fantasy on there consul. QUOTE]

... ... we don't have a crying smiley??????????


well, then... :(:(:(:(:(


I hate that it's going to the xbox, I don't know why since in all honesty I hate console exlcusivity (word?), but since they have it they might as well hold on to it... Final Fantasy was sony's treasure :( And I've already discussed this with Shadow. Final Fantasy beats Oblivion... well some do... (7, 8, 10, 12)

and I hate the shooters on Xbox because that's all that they have and they're all the same, I just hate nearly everything on the xbox... especially the contrtoller...


but you have no idea how much I've been wishing that Fable 2 would go to the PS3 too...

I love the wii... ... I only have six games... Mario Galaxy, Brawl, Twilight Princess, Resident Evil 4, Mario Kart, and Wii Sports. but those are all really good games :) Wii has more shit out there than the others... but it has more great games too.

and the PS3... ... well... it's my sexy little PS3. It makes my room look that much more valuable. and I play Team Fortress 2 and Resistance on it. :D

[jordanisonfire]

You can easily get all the good games from Xbox and PS3 on PCs and Macs. That's why there's no point in buying an Xbox or PS3. Whereas the Wii is unique.

[Gandalf the White]

Well the next final fantasy will come out on the ps3 I believe also. So don't fret. The PS TRIPLE needs to come out with some great games! They barely have anything... What do they have, metal gear solid 4? Thats basically their best one so far. All the other games have came out on the xbox just as well as the ps triple. I am excited about gears of war two. That'll be kick ass. Anyone watch E3? I know I did...

[Alex]

Having 10 installments of Mario Party is not original. Nintendo needs to come up with new chracters and new storylines, not the same ones from the early 90s/late 80s... Its ridiculous.

The graphics arne't the most important thing, but they should at least be able to run in 1080i if not 1080p like the 360 and PS3.

The 360 has more games and more users but it has a 22% failure rate right now and it had a 37% failure rate when it first came out. I know that you just send it in and get it back and 3 weeks and its fine, but still, a system shouldn't break. Any system you have to fix by overheating it with a towel isn't manufactured properly.

The PS3 IS getting games ((Confrontation will be the best tactical online experience on the market, Gran Turismo 5 will be the most in-depth racing game ever made, Mercs 2 is 360/PS3 and not my type of game but a good one nevertheless, The Force Unleashed might bring back the glory of past star wars RPGs, Fallout 3, the new Motostorm, we're getting Bioshock, Little Big Planet, the new Prince of Persia, Killzone 2, Resident Evil 5, The Agency, Bioshock 2 when you get it, not to mention rumors of Deus Ex 3, Doom 4, the new final fantasy, and rumors of Time Splitters, Ratchet and Clank, and Tekken 6)) So the games are improving and getting closer to one another.

You can't get all the good games at all on PC. The PC is the true gaming system but its so expensive, why buy a gaming PC for 2000$ ((thats how much you'll need to dish out for a processor than can play Crysis at all let alone steadily =p)) when you can buy an XBox Elite ((because if you buy a regular Xbox you're a fucking idiot)) or PS3 for 450$... Its simple

[Gandalf the White]

Aww Alex! I have all three systems though! Dang I guess I am a fucking idiot because I have the regular xbox! But hey, you can't call me that really because I got my xbox on the day it came out... They didn't have an elite unfortunately. Make an exception?

Hmm I am probably one of the top 5 hardcore gamers on this site... I know a lot when it comes to consoles. I love all of them, pc, playstion, xbox and yes, the wii. They're all nice. :D

[Alex]

oh well no I mean people getting one now. No one knew when you get it from the begining.

I am a hardcore gamer, I could only be more hardcore if I had a gaming PC to play CS and the like on =p

[Gandalf the White]

Lolz, I have a pretty kick ass computer. Shoot, 4GB of Ram, 3.0GHz processor, 512mb of dedicated video card memory. Best of the best. Hand built and all. Perfect for Crysis. By the way, the game is great. Although if you tried it on a sorry computer, wow I have seen it happen. It literally destroys it. I opened up my friends computer and the processor was melted! Takes a toll on the computer man. But I hand built my pc for only 700. Not too hard if you know where to get the parts.

[Alex]

=p

well I'm on my laptop for school with half a gig of ram, yea... I can't even play my beloved CS: Source >.<

[Gandalf the White]

Wow, man I feel ya. I used to have a lame laptop. But now... Sigh, I have a super computer! :D Do you know about any good games coming out soon? For any console really...

[Alex]

Socom for the PS3 man. If you've ever played socom 1 and socom 2 then you'll know, its the best online experience you can get on a console. Although Zipper Interactive fucked up with Socom 3 and Combined Assault, /6 has tried to recapture the old Socom magic. I'm not srue if it will be great, but everything sound right so far, also it comes bundled with the new bluetooth mic for an extra 10$. You can get it VIA PSN as well. There is no single player, however, so if you don't like online then you are out of luck, although if you aren't opposed to giving it a try you should. Its not like games like Call of Duty for the main fact that it is a tactical shooter and in 3rd person ((they added in OTS view as well but 98.7% of people said they were going to use 3rd Person on a poll on socom.com)). If you want a game on a console that can rival the competitiveness seen on the computer scene then Socom is your game.

*pitch over*

=p

[jordanisonfire]

Meh, you pretty much need a desktop PC/Mac for gaming, which I haven't got. However, I'm gonna buy the new MacBook Pro and see if that works good with games. At the moment, I can't get a desktop as I've got no desk to put it on.

[Gandalf the White]

I was thinking about getting the new socom and yes, I have played the other two. I will play virtually anything. I can't wait for gears of war 2. The game is so much fun online. Halo 3 is getting old to me... I have been playing the halo series since the beginning and now... It's getting old to me. I just need some new games. Supposedly everything is coming out around the holidays, such as Christmas.

[Alex]

ehh.... more will be next year

if you want something for the Wii get No More Heroes. Its different from anything else you've played before, and its made from the same guys who made Killer 7. I personally don't like the textures, but thats nitpicky, the game's combat is repetative but fun ((if you don't mind excessive gore)).

[Gandalf the White]

Mkay, I will take a look into it. Although... I think my friend has it...

[jordanisonfire]

Man, I hated No More Heroes. I thought instantly after the beginning mission: "This is boring as hell." I haven't been on it since. It's kinda like GTA on crack, without anything actually better than GTA except the more engaging combat scenes.

[Gandalf the White]

I love halo 3!!!

[Zayuh]

B-b-b-b-bioshock!

[Gandalf the White]

The only reason you have that "bioshock" is because of me Isaiah! I gave that blasted game to you! :D Damn wookies.

[Alex]

I love No More Heroes. It has some of the best controls on the console, levels that look different, a good backstory/idea. While its very high on the combat, and if you don't enjoy the combat then you won't enjoy the game, I just love the way the game runs. Its intuitive, and even when I found myself saying "I'm doing this again" the other voice in my head punched me in the face and told me its too fucking awesome to stop.

Also, on the harder difficulties it is a truly difficult game ((at least when you get to the boss battles... the infantry usually are never a challenge)).