View Full Version : Plans For July 2008
Ever since the beginning of the site, the Literature area has remained virtually unchanged. One thing we'd like to do is put more emphasis on Literature, as well as convenience, and giving it a slightly more productive feel than the Community.
New Submission/New Critique buttons
The first change, and by far the easiest, is to change the "New Thread/New Post" buttons in Literature to say "Submit Something/Critique This." Besides making it easier for new members to navigate, it'll help reinforce the fact that Literature is much more than just another casual discussion area.
^ This has already been done. Everything below has yet to happen.
Types of Critiques
At the moment, giving critiques can be messy. With the quotes, colored text, and everything in just one text box, it can be difficult to keep track of things. If possible, I'd like to implement a system where you can choose to write one of four types of critiques, and the site will present different layouts for each. Best-case scenario, they are:
Template - answer some questions about the submission (recommended for new users)
General – Just a paragraph or two on my thoughts (fast, short and simple)
Inline—I’ll be able to comment on each paragraph/verse in a separate box (very organized)
Manual—Quotes, thoughts, colors—however I want to do it (for experienced users)
Here (http://www.youngwritersonline.net/critiques/texthide.html) is a preview of what a Simple Template Critique would be like.
Navigation
We're planning some changes to the navigation bar at the top. Besides a few minor adjustments, I'd like to add Literature-specific links, like "New Literature," "New Critiques," "Critiques Needed," "Top-Rated," "Most Viewed," "Most Replied," etc.
Point System
To make sure everyone does their fair share of critiques, we're working on a new point system in which people get points based on their critique's length, and must spend points in order to post literature. Since this is a new thing, we intend to make it extremely lenient at the start, where one good critique will let you post one thing of your own. Unless you're someone who submits more things than you critique, this should not affect you at all.
Plans for Social Groups
When we did that big upgrade, we gained some new functionality for social groups, or "clubs" as we currently call them. The good news is that clubs will soon get their own page, with a wall, description, and a list of members. The bad news is that everyone will need to re-join the clubs they've already joined.
Ichigo
06-30-2008, 05:43 PM
Do the types of critiques really need to be that...organized?
Do the types of critiques really need to be that...organized?
"Manual" is exactly what we have now. But there will be other options available. :) Nobody will have to change the way they critique.
EDIT: Oh, I see what you're saying. We're not forcing people to categorize their critiques. We're just adding other ways of doing critiques. Like this one (http://www.youngwritersonline.net/critiques/texthide.html), which is not possible at the moment.
Rouge
06-30-2008, 08:44 PM
Do you mean plans for my birthday?
:rolleyes:
Oh. That's cool too. :)
Ichigo
07-01-2008, 12:49 AM
Yes we're going to have a massive celebration for your birthday.
It's going to be kick ass
:P
Okay thanks Andy. I was a little confused I guess...
Rouge
07-01-2008, 01:13 AM
Yes we're going to have a massive celebration for your birthday.
It's going to be kick ass
:P
SWEET!!!
I knew that I was turning 16, but I didn't know you guys cared so much.:blush:
Well, at least Ichi does. :D
Just finished some of the navigation bar edits (no Literature ones yet). The User CP now has a drop-down list, and Web Stuff now has a link to the YWO Facebook group. :cool:
Phantom
07-03-2008, 12:02 AM
Wow...
Carraka
07-03-2008, 12:09 AM
Oh, yes. I noticed the User CP drop list and was like -- wait -- was this here before? Am I turning senile?
Could you add the Edit Signature option to the User CP drop list? As Overlady of both SBS threads, I constantly have to use that feature.
Oh, yes. I noticed the User CP drop list and was like -- wait -- was this here before? Am I turning senile?
Could you add the Edit Signature option to the User CP drop list? As Overlady of both SBS threads, I constantly have to use that feature.
You gave me a sweet idea. How about adding a user-customized link? Everyone can name their own link and direct it to wherever they want?
*Adds to Checklist*
Yeah, the User CP list is new, but most of its things were just moved from the Quick Links one, which was getting quite long.
Carraka
07-03-2008, 01:51 AM
That is a sweet idea! (Just being encouraging.)
Just thought I'd give everyone an update on the progress. The points system is 80% finished. It counts all your bold and colored inline comments as well as comments you give outside of the quote tags, then awards points based on its length.
I'm working on the visuals right now. Messages telling you to critique more or how many more points you need, messages to get new users oriented, etc.
Carraka
07-10-2008, 03:53 PM
Do you need points to post new segments of your story? Or to make new story threads? Or both?
Do you need points to post new segments of your story? Or to make new story threads? Or both?
Both.
What we actually intend to do is not let people reply to their own things. That means if there's a new segment, you'll have to make a new thread. It's far more organized (you don't have lots of chapters, critiques for multiple chapters, and author's replies all mixed within the same thread). If you want to read a long story, you don't have to scroll through everything; you can just read the first post of each thread. And if you post a new chapter, the new thread means it'll appear in the New Literature link.
For convenience, I've added a button to search for chapters. If you're reading a story's chapter, it will display all the story's other chapters in order they were posted.
As for discussing stuff, you can always PM, Thank, or write on the wall of someone who critiqued your work. We're also making a new section solely for discussing member's stories in Literature.
Does that all sound good? Might take some getting used to, but Shaun and I think it will make everything easier.
Carraka
07-10-2008, 10:19 PM
Ah ... yeah ... I just organized everything to be linked to in my first post a few days ago.
You should've told me earlier. xD
Sounds retarded to me, and makes the board look a mess ...
Plus I would hate not to be able to reply in-thread.
No, having all my chapters, plus people's critiques of chapters scattered through them, plus my responses to those chapters is what makes a board a mess. :rolleyes:
For what reason would you have to reply in-thread, when there are already 3 others ways which don't involve clogging a critique thread?
Carraka
07-10-2008, 11:35 PM
Although it will be very difficult for me to adapt, I do see an upside. I won't have to flip through the entire thread to find critiques related to one specific segment ...
Although since I have a lot of segments left to post, maybe fifty or more -- that still might be a bit ... much. Hey, could I have my own forum?
Starry
07-10-2008, 11:37 PM
I had all my story segments in separate threads, and Shaun made me change it to put them all in the same one! That just somewhat irritates me. And how are we going to change the big long threads back anyway?
Carraka
07-10-2008, 11:41 PM
I would also want EC to be separated into 22 threads, but then again, the effort involved doing that might not match the effort I would have to put into finding the correlating crits.
xP Sorry, starry.
Although it will be very difficult for me to adapt, I do see an upside. I won't have to flip through the entire thread to find critiques related to one specific segment ...
Although since I have a lot of segments left to post, maybe fifty or more -- that still might be a bit ... much. Hey, could I have my own forum?
Fifty or more? :O Wow.
I had all my story segments in separate threads, and Shaun made me change it to put them all in the same one! That just somewhat irritates me. And how are we going to change the big long threads back anyway?
Okay, I'll see if I can make separate threads an optional thing. Maybe it could be something left to the writer's own tastes. But if it's possible, it WILL cost points to reply to your own stuff. It wouldn't be fair to let someone get 10 points and then post chapter after chapter in the same thread.
Carraka
07-10-2008, 11:51 PM
Fifty or more? :O Wow.
Well, let me do the math. I've got about 22 up right now, and that takes me about 2/5 of the way through the novel. Yeah, so maybe not fifty more, but eventually there would be more than fifty segments.
Okay, I'll see if I can make separate threads an optional thing. Maybe it could be something left to the writer's own tastes. But if it's possible, it WILL cost points to reply to your own stuff. It wouldn't be fair to let someone get 10 points and then post chapter after chapter in the same thread.I was asking to make sure that that sort of thing didn't happen. Could you make the system specific enough to say that only replies more than a certain number of words cost points?
I was asking to make sure that that sort of thing didn't happen. Could you make the system specific enough to say that only replies more than a certain number of words cost points?
Oh, I see what you're getting at. You mean like brief replies? I don't know. That would involve a lot more work, and it would make things more confusing than just seeing how much it'll cost before you even start posting.
Are you thinking of something that can only be done in a reply that can't be done in a PM?
Starry
07-11-2008, 12:11 AM
Oh, I see what you're getting at. You mean like brief replies? I don't know. That would involve a lot more work, and it would make things more confusing than just seeing how much it'll cost before you even start posting.
Are you thinking of something that can only be done in a reply that can't be done in a PM?
I think she means more along the lines of if you want to respond to something someone has said in a critique (asking them to clarify, etc) but you aren't posting a new segment, will that still cost points? I've done that once or twice, as no one has critted my most recent chapter yet (I have 14 chapters, and I've only posted 7 or 8! Come on people!)
Carraka
07-11-2008, 12:39 AM
Yeah, I just mean really short replies. I'm not sure what could be done in a reply that couldn't be done in a PM. Once Shaun and Imelda started arguing about author intrusion in EC's thread, if that's a good example ...
I think she means more along the lines of if you want to respond to something someone has said in a critique (asking them to clarify, etc) but you aren't posting a new segment, will that still cost points? I've done that once or twice, as no one has critted my most recent chapter yet (I have 14 chapters, and I've only posted 7 or 8! Come on people!)
I see what you mean. But what if the author has zero points, starts typing, then decides to post the next part in that post? They'll either have negative 10 points or zero, depending on whether we allow negatives or not. They either got away with not needing points, or they have negative points, which just gets extremely messy.
What if the person who critiqued your work doesn't come back to visit the thread? What if they only came to give one critique? They won't be able to clarify.
I think I may have a solution, though. What if there was a button which quoted a critique and put it in a PM to the critter, which you could then ask questions about. Would that work, in your opinion?
Carraka
07-11-2008, 12:44 AM
I see what you mean. But what if the author has zero points, starts typing, then decides to post the next part in that post? They'll either have negative 10 points or zero, depending on whether we allow negatives or not. They either got away with not needing points, or they have negative points, which just gets extremely messy.
What if the person who critiqued your work doesn't come back to visit the thread? What if they only came to give one critique? They won't be able to clarify.
I think I may have a solution, though. What if there was a button which quoted a critique and put it in a PM to the critter, which you could then ask questions about. Would that work, in your opinion?
There's no point in having a button like that if you can just PM the critter. But if there was a button that allows you to respond specifically to the crit, that would work. And if you abuse it to post more ... -insert punishment here-?
Which could go from banning to locking the thread to deducting points, etc.
There's no point in having a button like that if you can just PM the critter. But if there was a button that allows you to respond specifically to the crit, that would work. And if you abuse it to post more ... -insert punishment here-?
Which could go from banning to locking the thread to deducting points, etc.
I'm worried that in making the system more complex to let people reply to critiques in the same thread, there's the risk of new users getting really confused, conversations developing (which would automatically award points to people who reply to the author), and also the risk of giving people a loophole to post work for free, which is what the entire point system is supposed to prevent.
To me, the cons really outweigh the pros, especially if there isn't anything in a reply that couldn't also be done in a PM.
Carraka
07-11-2008, 12:56 AM
I'm worried that in making the system more complex to let people reply to critiques in the same thread, there's the risk of new users getting really confused and also the risk of giving people a loophole to post work for free, which is what the entire point system is supposed to prevent.
Perhaps go with the ideas you have for now, and if we complain too much when they're implemented, then break your back to make the system more complex. Although I suppose if you're very attentive and not afraid to punish, the whole posting-work-for-free shouldn't be too much of a problem. o.O
Thanks for understanding. I will add an option to quote a critique in a PM, though.
I'm discussing with Shaun the possibility of letting authors reply to their own work for only 1 point (a new thread costs 4-10). It's hardly anything. And the main culprits this system is trying to stop are the new members who post new threads without critting, not people who keep replying with more.
Good news for everyone! I've found a way to allow both new replies (no point cost) and new submissions (costs points) whenever you're replying to your own literature thread. It also makes it really easy for moderators to see if anyone's tried to get away with posting their work without paying.
Okay, a head's up to everyone! We're going to start using the point system later today. That also means we're going to be moving your writing to a new Literature section.
For previews of what this will look like:
http://www.youngwritersonline.net/showthread.php?t=1327
EDIT: We're going to do it Tuesday morning. Today wasn't a good day.
Sweeet! I'm so excited for the point-system!:D
Me, too. I've got visions of apocalyptic complaining and errors, though. :) Don't know why. It's working just as it should, and earning points is not exactly exhausting.
Starry
07-14-2008, 10:29 PM
Wait, so are we all going to start out with zero points, or are we going to have however many points we would had this system always been in effect? (I've been wondering about this for a while, actually, but I keep forgetting to ask :] )
Majyk
07-14-2008, 10:31 PM
Wait, so are we all going to start out with zero points, or are we going to have however many points we would had this system always been in effect? (I've been wondering about this for a while, actually, but I keep forgetting to ask :] )
Ooh, me too. Thanks for posting and reminding me, starry :).
Everyone will get 10 points to start off. Unfortunately, it is impossible to calculate all the posts you've ever done.
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