Greatest Movie Series: Argue Away

[Shaun]

That's why, I'm going there, and I want this to be a debate! This might be a silly debate, but I want argument nonetheless.

So my choice is Star Wars. Why? Because Star Wars did for movies what no other franchise could have done. Darth Vader is such a household name now that just the mention of that plastic-covered Force user conjures instant memories of some of the most famous lines in movies history:
"Luke, I am your father."
"Use the Force, Luke."
"Kooohhhh kaaaaaah koooooh kaaaaah."
"I find your lack of pants...errr...FAITH disturbing."

Hate it if you want, but Star Wars is the single greatest series ever made. The mythology of the SW universe has sparked academic interest in the form of historical critique and examinations of pop culture.

So, take that!

[Imelda]

Star Wars is NOT the greatest series ever made, because I haven't yet been persuaded to watch it.

Not so with LotR and PotC! Both of which I didn't want to watch to begin with, and both of which I feel totally in love with. Personally I like PotC best, because it's fun and the costumes/music are amazing, and Jack Sparrow makes me laugh.

Buuuut LotR is probably more deserving of the title. It took a beloved set of books and made a visualisation that was actually worthy of them. The craftsmanship of the sets, the costumes, the story ... it's all amazing. The way it was put together and the sheer energy and dedication devoted to making it so perfect makes it the best.

[Andy]

Pirates lost all hope of winning that title with thie third movie.

I'd have to go with lord of the rings, because it's very true to the books, and I can't recall anything that made me angry watching it. It's beautiful too.

Spiderman beats pirates, but doesn't take first place.

[Lykaios]

I agree with LotR, it was amazingly done and yeah, the costumes. stettings and cast were all great, I really felt like I was inside the film with the characters and it also has a sensational soundtrack. :)

PotC comes a close second if I exclude the third film, it also has a great soundtrack and the sets and ships and humour are good. And I love pirates. :)

[Imelda]

Spiderman is awful. The effects are appalling in the first two films (haven't seen the third, but apparently it has an emo dance in it? ... it's bad :p) the acting is worse and the storyline is boring. Not something you could ever say for Pirates. :p

[Shaun]

Star Wars is still better.

[Quietus]

If I were to follow being a Star Wars nerd (like I am), I'd say SW was the greatest... But I can't say that. LotR is by far the best movie series ever (so far). Peter Jackson took one of the greatest fantasies of all time and created movies that did it justice. The sets are phenomenal, as with the CGI. The acting is superb. Everything about LotR is what makes it the best.

[Shaun]

Yeah, but Star Wars was an ORIGINAL story. They didn't need a book for the ideas :P

[GeorgeMichael]

That's true Shaun but no one really cares if the ideas were original or not, what mattered was the quality of the film, not the source material, and in that aspect (not of originality or source, but from quality film making) LoTR definitely wins, Although I adore Star Wars they started off great with IV, achieved Masterpiece level with V, and then sunk down to ok... with VI... LoTR achieved Masterpiece with the first one, left us in awe at the second one, and then raised the bar even higher as far as masterpieces are concerned with the third one. The LoTR just had like everything in it, it was so well made, and it looked incredible, it had great acting, action, and storylines... It was just a much more well rounded series.

[Shaun]

Originality is important. Much of what Peter Jackson used that is so beautiful was taken directly from the books. It's not his original story. He simply took what was already written. Therefore, minus points.
Star Wars, however, did something that no other series had done before: created a franchise that to this day is just as strong. The Star Wars mythos is a million times more complex than Star Trek or LOTR.

[GeorgeMichael]

yes... but... ok here's a way to explain it, Imagine a person who had never heard of Star Wars or had never heard of LoTR. He doesn't know that there were books for LoTR or that Star Wars is an original story... all he knows is that he has two trilogies in front of him, now when he watches them if he judges them based on pure film making qualities LoTR would take the cake. He wouldn't care if Peter Jackson adapted a book and George Lucas thought of it, he would care that the movie was just so much more majestic and incredible. From a complete movie only point of view, devoid of all other factors, LoTR is the better trilogy.

[Shaun]

yes... but... ok here's a way to explain it, Imagine a person who had never heard of Star Wars or had never heard of LoTR. He doesn't know that there were books for LoTR or that Star Wars is an original story... all he knows is that he has two trilogies in front of him, now when he watches them if he judges them based on pure film making qualities LoTR would take the cake. He wouldn't care if Peter Jackson adapted a book and George Lucas thought of it, he would care that the movie was just so much more majestic and incredible. From a complete movie only point of view, devoid of all other factors, LoTR is the better trilogy.

Okay, so imagine a soldier in the Nazi army who didn't know about the concentration camps. Does that mean they didn't happen? Nope, far from it. Ignorance of reality is not an excuse, it's a disease :P.

Star Wars is better. End of story. You wouldn't even have LOTR if it wasn't for the ground breaking effects in SW. You're also making a bad case for comparison. You're taking something made in the last 10 years and comparing it visually to something made 30 years ago. So by that logic all silent films from the early days of film are completely garbage in comparison to anything done with sound and color. That's simply not the case. You have to look at all components while taking historical presence into consideration. Doing so makes SW better.

[Zombified]

Just to throw my two cents in....

I think George A. Romero's "Dead" movies make up the greatest movie series.

You know, films like...

"Night of the Living Dead"
"Dawn of the Dead"
"Day of the Dead"
"Land of the Dead"
"Diary of the Dead"

Say what you want but from my horror inspired view points, these movies have sparked a lot of creativity in how horror films are done today.

Characterization, biting commentary on society and horror all meshed together.
Thats what I call a helluva a series.

[jordanisonfire]

My favourite series is the Matrix. I think they were put together well and they have a very good plot. Obviously, one of you is gonna yell something about plot not really being original or they could have done better with the CGI. HOWEVER, it is not an argument of favourites. So, I'll agree that Star Wars and LotR are best. I can't decide which one is better. Star Wars had a good plot and did a good job without using 99.9% CGI like the newest movies did (which suck, by the way). LotR was from a book, but the CGI involved was believable. Plus, it's good of them to make them nigh on three hours long rather than make it half that time and cut a load of stuff out like other people do with book-based movies nowadays.

[Shaun]

Romero is good, but I think the problem with his latest films has been a complete lack of originality. His original zombie movies were painfully realistic, original, and amazing. They still terrify me (zombies are the only things that really scare me anymore, in any form), but the remakes of his movies and even his newest flick "Land of the Dead" have been relatively uninspired. I liked the new Dawn of the Dead, because it had a different approach than you might expect (like people, gasp, actually holding up in a place with food and water and guns), but the ending only managed to ruin things. Land of the Dead was absolutely HORRIBLE. I hated it the second that stupid leader zombie came on and made that annoying "nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn" sound. And then he magically picks up a gun and starts using it. It was so corny and horrible. Romero needs to do something extremely new with zombies...

Matrix was good...at first. Then the second movie was made...which was horrible. Talk about a lame TV movie cliffhanger. Oh and the whole "Neo can fly like superman" crap was just stupid. I mean, it's cool in a way, but only because I'd like to fly too, not because I think it was a good idea. They made Neo too...superhero-ish and I think it was much better when he was just a guy who could fiddle with the matrix. The third one had its moments. The battle was awesome right up until the part where that damned dorky guy points a robot gun at the door and says "Neo, I believe". Right then I just didn't give a flying fig about what happened next. There wasn't a reason to care. Yay for believing from naive morons. Woot. The first Matrix was amazing. Limited CGI, limited crap, overall good. Then they decided to throw in as much CGI and poor writing as possible into the sequels.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Indiana Jones yet.

[GeorgeMichael]

Zombie's right, we've been denying other trilogies and focusing on the two fantasy and sci fi ones... so I'll mention the greats :)


Indiana Jones
The Godfather
Back to the Future
Die Hard
Harry Potter
James Bond
The Matrix
Alien
Jurassic Park
The Evil Dead


I could go on and on :)

[Zombified]

You forgot a couple...

Rambo
The Terminator
Predator

[Shaun]

Indiana Jones--Wicked awesome.
The Godfather--So utterly boring
Back to the Future--The first one was good, the others were okay.
Die Hard--Decent series. The most recent one was awesome.
Harry Potter--I think as a film series these are great, but not as book adaptations. They do well though and I do like them a lot.
James Bond--Nothing wrong with Bond. :P
The Matrix--First one was revolutionary...the others were mostly meh.
Alien--First good, second good, third crap, fourth eh, and if we want to put AvP in here, then you have two crap flicks. The first two were excellent though.
Jurassic Park--First was good, terrified me as a kid. Second was okay (not as bad as people say it is by the way). Third was alright, but not as good as the first.
The Evil Dead--First was creepy as hell. The second I never saw. Third was awesome. Great series here.
Rambo--First Blood was good. Never saw the others.
The Terminator--First was great, second was even better (revolutionary, in a lot of ways), and the third was actually not bad. I love Terminator :P
Predator--First was awesome and did everything right. The second missed the mark.

[Lykaios]

Die Hard 4.0 was great. :)

[Ichigo]

How many movies do you watch Shaun?

I've always hated Star Wars, not because I don't appreciate what the movies have done for the world and whatnot. But just...I never got into them. I think I'm too young anyways.

So for me it's LotR, for all the reasons stated above.

[sXe_Jinxeh]

Let's be honest here, time for me to throw my two cents worth in.

The Pirates films were horrible. The dialogue was so bad (Except Jack...but that was all Johnny.), the characters were horrible (except Jack...but again, all Johnny), and don't get me started on the sequels. POTC 1 was a somewhat worthwhile film, it was okay but Elizabeth was one of the worst written characters in the history of Disney. POTC 1 was not meant to have a sequel.

I have not seen LOTRs, but I've seen parts, and really? It bores the crap out of me.

The best series ever is Die Hard. The reason why it is the best series ever is because all four movies are great stand alone films. You could have gone to see Live Free without ever seeing any of the other Die Hards and you still would have had a freakin' awesome time. The character is brilliant, the plot lines are great, and the best part was the movies didn't get worse as they continued on. In all honesty, Live Free was as good if not better then the first one.

Now, due to my comments about Pirates, I'm going to go crawl under a rock until the tension dies down.

[Andy]

Originality is important. Much of what Peter Jackson used that is so beautiful was taken directly from the books. It's not his original story. He simply took what was already written. Therefore, minus points.
You can't claim Peter Jackson stole the beauty from the books. The transition from books to real life is a big one. I'm sure he could have created a Lorien or Hobbiton which looked like the books described, but also looked like crap. Give him some credit.

The Pirates films were horrible. The dialogue was so bad (Except Jack...but that was all Johnny.), the characters were horrible (except Jack...but again, all Johnny), and don't get me started on the sequels. POTC 1 was a somewhat worthwhile film, it was okay but Elizabeth was one of the worst written characters in the history of Disney. POTC 1 was not meant to have a sequel.
First one was good. I didn't like the second much, and the third was where they threw out all creativity in favor of eye-candy special effects.

The first one WAS meant to have a sequel, actually. Not only did it have that broken compass which later played an important role, it also had a subtitle (The Curse of the Black Pearl), which would not have been necessary if they had no intentions of doing another "Pirates of the Caribbean" movie.

[Shaun]

Great...I WAS typing something, and then Firefox interrupted right as I made a typo, so when I backspaced, it actually clicked the back on my blasted browser...dangit. I was almost done.

Ichigo: I watch movies whenever I can. I love them. I'm a connoisseur. I'd go to them more often if I had someone to go with in Santa Cruz, but most of my friends aren't here. Hopefully when Imelda comes to visit we'll get to go to the movies a couple times. But I watch anything I can provided it fits my interests.

sXe: I don't agree with you on POTC 1. I think it was a beautifully done film. The sequels...not so much. Let's face it, the pivotal scene that told us "this is going to rule" was when Captain Jack Sparrow shows up in the bay standing on the top of his ship as it's sinking. The sequels had one thing going for them: Bill Nighy. If you don't like him, you need a new brain. He did a great job giving a lot of character to Davy Jones. But the sequels themselves were generally "eh". Good, but they were like the Matrix sequels. They probably shouldn't have been made and they diverted from what was pivotal in the overall story. I don't care all that much about William Turner and Elizabeth Swan. And they made Jack too much of a bad guy. He lost a lot of the ambiguity when they showed him betraying EVERYONE. At least Barbossa didn't pretend to be on your side. You knew he was bad from the start.

Andy: That's actually not true about POTC. They may have had ideas to have a sequel, but if POTC had bombed...that sequel never would have been made. It is exceedingly rare for a studio to attempt to make a wholly original movie (and yes, POTC was originally something else...they tacked POTC on there so it would get better sales due to the hype of the ride) and then have a sequel set to follow it. Hollywood is cheap. They never divest more effort into something unless they know they can get a good chunk of cash from it. If POTC had barely crossed the break-even mark...POTC 2 probably never would have seen the light of day. Stop reading Wikipedia...it's bad for your health :P (I'm kidding).

As for Jackson: I do give him credit. But I don't give him as much credit as I give to George Lucas. Lucas created a world out of NOTHING. He didn't have a set of books that someone wrote and then translated them to screen. Yes, adaptations take talent, and Jackson is a genius, but Lucas takes the cake for doing something from nothing. Nobody thought Star Wars was even going to be good when it first came out. They figured it was going to bomb out, and it did for the first few days, and then it exploded. Why? Cause Star Wars is the greatest thing to hit the cinema since sound.

[sXe_Jinxeh]

If they would have left the first one without the broken compass, it would have been a great movie. It was just another example of Disney taking things too far because they're Disney, and they rule the world.

[Midnight_Moon]

I love Disney movies. I am a big fan of the Narnia series. Even though they are pretty religious, I really like the story line. The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe and Prince Caspian were both amazing. Great actors by the way.

POTC were OK. I like the first one. The second wasn't very great. But the third was better (not as good as one but better then two).

LotR RULES!!!!! I watched all of them and just love them. First one was great! Second amazing (It had the awesome horsey scene. I mean c'mon Aragon wouldn't be there without the horse). And the third one was really cool. You can't possible compare them. They are all so good.

I think being a director, playwright, or actress would be fun. (Actress first, then playwright, then director). I absolutely hate when directors and movie companies wreck books. It's so annoying.

[Shaun]

Get prepared for a lot of book ruining in the next few years. Titles coming up include:

The Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons
Pattern Recognition by William Gibson
Neuromancer by William Gibson

And a bunch of others less familiar. Most likely they will all be ruined because the books themselves are not easily adaptable.

[Midnight_Moon]

Well, non of those are familiar to me. But they are making a "Twilight" movie but it looks good.

OK, well I'm wandering from the subject.

[Andy]

If they would have left the first one without the broken compass, it would have been a great movie. It was just another example of Disney taking things too far because they're Disney, and they rule the world.
To be honest I'm so tired of companies who try to squeeze as much money out of every movie they can. Films which have been ruined by sequels include:

Pirates
The Karate Kid
Neverending Story
Star Wars (the second trilogy did not match up)
The Matrix
Disney, please explain why Cinderella has TWO sequels :glare:
The Little Mermaid has a sequel and now a prequel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Mermaid:_Ariel%27s_Beginning)
Lilo and Stitch (3 sequels)

Can't think of anymore at the moment. At least the Alladin sequels were good.

[GeorgeMichael]

Disney is responsible for more than half of the worlds shameless franchise squeezing... I mean... do they have a movie that did good and doesn't have a sequel/ prequel/ or one of the two in production right now?


Sleeping Beauty? Snow White?...

[Shaun]

To be honest I'm so tired of companies who try to squeeze as much money out of every movie they can. Films which have been ruined by sequels include:

Pirates
The Karate Kid
Neverending Story
Star Wars (the second trilogy did not match up)
The Matrix
Disney, please explain why Cinderella has TWO sequels :glare:
The Little Mermaid has a sequel and now a prequel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Mermaid:_Ariel%27s_Beginning)
Lilo and Stitch (3 sequels)

Can't think of anymore at the moment. At least the Alladin sequels were good.

By the way, I'm actually about tired of this argument against the new trilogy for Star Wars. First off, no matter what Lucas did, the films NEVER WOULD HAVE MATCHED UP. PERIOD! He could have done EVERYTHING RIGHT and people would have still said "well they suck compared to the originals". It's a stupid argument made by a public either intentionally or unintentionally biased on the subject.

[Andy]

Disney is responsible for more than half of the worlds shameless franchise squeezing... I mean... do they have a movie that did good and doesn't have a sequel/ prequel/ or one of the two in production right now?


Sleeping Beauty? Snow White?...
It's only a matter of time before Disney reveals there was a second part to Snow White's curse... :O Like...unable to have children.

[Pibs]

Greatest Movie Series:
...
High School Musical!!!!!
...
...
:unsure:

What? Aren't you guys all DIEING to know what happens in Troy and Gabriella's senior year?!?!?!

[Shaun]

Not really, no. :P

[Pibs]

LOL :D
...
Uh, me neither. They're obnoxious.

[GeorgeMichael]

... ... ... ...


When I found out there was a third one (High School Musical) I almost threw up... but then when I saw an actual cardboard cutout for the movie at my theater I wanted to take it away and burn it!!!





I didn't of course :whistle:

[Pibs]

Oh god... yeah. I mean, it's so horridly cliche... and corny... and it's got Zac Efron. Ick. Seriously, how many times can we do the same thing over? They get together, Sharpay concocts an evil plan to get Troy which almost works, and he and Gabriella almost break up but then Troy realizes he's a jerk and he and Gabriella sing a cute song about how much they love each other and they all live happily ever after...
...until the next sequal! *barfs*

How do I know this? MM has watched both, and I figured I'd watch because the idiocy is amusing.

Then I had stupid "Huma Huma Nuka Nuka" stuck in my head for millenia. *pukes again*

Thank you, Disney.

[Linds.xo]

Greatest Movie Series:
...
High School Musical!!!!!
...
...
:unsure:

What? Aren't you guys all DIEING to know what happens in Troy and Gabriella's senior year?!?!?!


OH my, I nearly cried when you said this. Then I saw the sarcasm things. :P



... ... ... ...


When I found out there was a third one (High School Musical) I almost threw up... but then when I saw an actual cardboard cutout for the movie at my theater I wanted to take it away and burn it!!!





I didn't of course

Oh my goodness. There is a third one!? I wasnt aware of this..
I think I might go throw up now :P

[Midnight_Moon]

Yeah, they are kinda OK. I really want to see "Camp Rock". Don't you dare pick on me, Pibs!!! Or Blue!!! I'm sorry but I like any Disney movie with the characters singing in them and that are completely cliche and corny. I makes me happy. No really it does.

[GeorgeMichael]

It's ok Midnight... In a few years you will see the errors of your ways, it's one of those things you will look back on and go "My God I can't believe I used to watch that!"

:) Give it time, give it time.

[Midnight_Moon]

Really? I don't think I will ever get over "Enchanted". OMG!!! Adorable!

[GeorgeMichael]

OH!!! Well, Enchanted is another story... I'm talking about Disney Channel Movies... but Enchanted, oh yes I loved Enchanted.


No one judge me!

[Midnight_Moon]

No, I am like all Disney movies; Disney Channel or not. I like them all.

[Pibs]

Okay, so Enchanted was kind of cute, with all the little animals and stuff, but...

MM LOOOOOOVVVEES Nick!!!

That's the right one, correct?

I wouldn't have picked on you if you wouldn't have told me not to. :devious: :P

[Midnight_Moon]

Nick?? What the heck! Wrong one honey. Pony likes that one.

To everyone who doesn't understand a think Pibs and I are talking about: Just ignore the whole thing.

[Pibs]

No no no, she likes Joe. You must like Kevin then. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Me poke you. :sword:

[/spam]

[Midnight_Moon]

Nope not Kevin either. Pony and I will have to share swooning rights.

I poke you for picking on me. :sword:

[/spam]

[GeorgeMichael]

Who is Nick? Who is Pony???


What is all this?

[Pibs]

Nick is one of the Jonas Brothers. MM likes one of the other ones, Joe. Pony is (the screen name of) my friend, who likes Nick.

I don't like any of them.

We're spamming up the thread. Heheheh...